If you get the 17, your friends will
make you carry the beer and most of the gear.
Check out that new 16’ Epic SOT. Rudder designed to cock up easily in swamps. Lots of storage. Fast.
when you paddle a longer boat
your bow gets there before the bow of the other guy’s boat 
size
I went from a 13’ Necky Manitou to a 16’6" P&H Capella and never missed the smaller kayak. In fact, I kept the Necky for a couple of years but never paddled it again. Once I got used to the Capella, it was very maneuverable and also faster and better handling in rough water. The only advantage to the Necky was that it was easier to load on my truck and carry to the water.
You didn’t say
what you’re looking to get in your “upgrade”.
Ideally, paddle both boats to see which one you like more.
If your friends are on short boats, the “advantage” of the long boat might be lost on you. Faster? You’ll just be waiting longer for your friends to catch up (been there, done that, can get boring). Better suited in big water? You’ll have to find other friends to paddle the bigger water with, etc…
As for turning in tight space, there will be a point when the 14 footer can do a u-turn in a 15 feet wide channel and the 17 footer won’t (but you get pretty good at backing for 1/2 mile after a few practice! ;-] )
of course
I should have said it - it is almost a sure thing that a 17 foot kayak will be significantly faster than a 14 foot kayak. There probably are exceptions that someone will be nice enough to point out, but I can’t think of any.
Whistler
the redesign w. the RSS (Revolutionary Seating System) came in 2010. If the Whistler you’re looking at is an earlier model, it’ll have a cockpit 16.5x33, not huge esp. in width.
you’ve done a good job of describing w. whom, how and where you want to paddle, including future goals of more river paddling.
I’d be persuaded to go w. the Whistler (assuming you paddle it and you like the fit, handling etc)
- your buddies are in 12’ boats. Y’all aren’t likely to go into open waters so the open water capabilities of a 17’ Cape Horn won’t be missed.
- you said you were getting hooked on river camping. The Whistler’s a gear sponge whether you are going solo or w. a buddy or two. It’ll hold plenty, so no advantage to the 17’ boat there.
- you can learn how to handle a 17 footer on rivers but there is much less of a learning curve on a 14 footer. It’s easier.
- the point made by abc about outpacing your buddies in their shorter boats is a good one to consider.
- your favored places are estuaries and coves…sheltered areas. The Whistler will be excellent for that kind of paddling and give you all the advantages above.
- at 190 lbs plus gear (esp. camping gear) you will settle into the Whistler just fine. With a cockpit width of 16.5" it’s not a real big guy’s boat…
- it is however very stable (thus great for fishing and photography). While the Cape Horn boats are not tender, they aren’t optimum for either activity.
- from what you described imo you’ll get more priorities satisfied and more uses met more easily in the Whistler than the Cape Horn.
Thanks!
Thanks for the tips everyone! I can only have one kayak so it looks like one that is between 14 and 15 feet may be ideal for what I do especially because I may be moving into an apartment soon.
A few Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145’s have gone up for sale. One is $1000 (but includes a paddle, pfd, and spray skirt) and it is about three years old. The other doesn’t have a rudder and there is no price listed. However, its part of a package deal with another kayak and accessories for 1750 so I could probably score it for 7-800. I’d add a rudder if possible.
About a rudder
I doubt that you will need one. You should be fine controlling your kayak via edging while on the move.
As for kayak length, mine’s just over 17 feet and I’ve squeezed into some tight waterways. Only time I’ve had trouble turning was when the width of the stream was less than the length of my kayak:) Luckily we do have a ‘reverse’.
Unless stored outside in sun age ok
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=1151
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=814
Usually newer models are better but not always. Some get changed for manufacturing reasons, others for the newest trend.
Tsunami 145…
That is a pretty good deal you cite, but just to warn ya… the Tsunami 145 is definitely designed for BIG boys, in my experience. At 5’8" 190 lbs, you’re more like medium-sized.
Let’s put it this way- I’ve paddled a 145, and even though I’m taller and heavier than you (by about 35 lbs, presently), the 145 felt very much like a barge to me.
Too much buoyancy, hard to shove around, and it was hard to swim up on its tall back deck as part of some self-rescue practice (all that buoyancy might’ve been working against me there too).
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent boat, and you could get away with using it just fine, probably… but I think the ‘sweet spot’ for paddler size in its design is for someone considerably bigger/heavier than you (and me). I also don’t remember it being so great to edge, either.
That’s what I was thinking
after reading up on it some more. Oh well! I’ll keep looking!
Go with 17+ feet
I have never heard a kayaker say “I need a shorter kayak”. If anything the opposite is true.
I went from 13’ to 15’ to 17’ to 17.5’ and now I’m at 18.5’.
Just skip all those steps and go with 17’.
“I have never heard a kayaker say “I need a shorter kayak”. If anything the opposite is true.”
You’ve been around the wrong people.
shorter
I went from 14.5’ to 12’ & love it!
Lighter to carry, quicker, more manuverable, and still big enough to get 'er done.
another model suggestion
You’re exactly the size of my boyfriend who has 3 kayaks himself and has used several of mine (up to 18’). Of all the models we have his very favorite is my Venture Easky 15LV. There’s a thread on here at the moment where the OP asks for feedback on the 15LV if you want to check out other comments about it. For the same price point as the Tsunamis of similar size I think it’s a nicer boat. The LV is for low volume which means it is suitable for small to medium sized people. The 15’ length is long enough to be fast and track well yet is still maneuverable and at 44 pounds it is about 10 to 20% lighter than most other rotomolds in its class. I have even used it in some mild Class II streams as well as open water. It’s just a fun responsive boat. If I had to keep just one kayak for all around use it would probably be the Easky.
The biggest problem is locating one to test. They are manufactured in Great Britain and dealers are not that common here. REI used to carry them but does not seem to do so anymore.
I think it is overkill for most.
Lots of paddlers have gone to the 14 foot sized boats and their daily mileage is the same and the boat handles better. Some say their daily mileage is better with the shorter boats.
I shared some ideas about it here. You can also see a treatise of the subject on Cape Falcon Kayak’s site I think as he recommends a 14 foot boat for most.
http://paddlingandsailing.blogspot.com/2012/05/rec-boat-vs-sea-kayak.html
Good article…
…though I personally don’t classify boats the same way you do.
To me,
‘Rec kayak’ = boat lacking front & rear bulkheads (usually only has the rear), little or no deck rigging/perimeter lines, insufficient buoyancy, very slow, and basically unsafe.
‘Transitional/day-tourer’ = A boat that is basically safe (dual bulkheads, good perimeter lines/deck rigging, sufficient buoyancy), but which, due to reasons of insufficient length or too much width/beam, do not quite meet the classical definition of ‘sea kayak’.
‘Sea kayak’= Long, skinny, safe boats with all the trimmings.
functional length
Actually, boats like the Easkys with the extended Greenland style bow have a shorter waterline – my 15LV’s WL is a bit less than 14’ so close to the shorter kayaks you espouse.
Length is far from an absolute measure of functionality. Weight and hull shape are more important. There are long barges and short sylphs. On the other hand, I can outdistance most anyone else I paddle with in my 18 footer in part because it only weighs 31 lbs and tracks like a laser.
That’s a good classification.
Enough or more than enough
The 14’ is enough, and it will be better matched to what your friends paddle. It also sounds as though your transportation requirements are better suited to the shorter boat. If you could put more than enough gear in the 12-footers, then 14’ will be fine.
If it were me, I’d go with the shorter boat and if that later ended up being “not enough” (longer trips) then I’d sell it and shop for a longer one.
Overkill has a negative connotation. The 17’ is more than enough for what you listed as your paddling desires and it’ll probably be less maneuverable in twisty narrow stuff. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad choice; depends on whether your stated wants will change to include longer trips or different venues.