@Doggy Paddler Lots of good used boats on the Boston market…you just need to wait a bit until the right one comes along. I snagged a similar vintage (1999) Current Designs Solstice GTS for $700 a couple of years ago, and just recently picked up 2 additional kayaks, a 17" Perception Eclipse Airalite and a 16" Impex Montauk for $400 (for the pair), with paddles, spray skirts, PFDs… I had to put 3 new hatch covers on the Impex, and a new 3/4 bolt on the Perception, so I’m into the two kayaks for about $600. The Perception is bullet proof and the Impex is very clean. I figure each of them is worth $800- $1000…
The bottom of that boat looks pretty beat up. On that alone, I’d pass.
Ideally, you want to be able to try out a boat in the water before you buy… I found the Impex pretty tippy and might put it back on the market, as it’s slated for use by house guests who probably don’t have significant kayaking experience…
If you’re on the Cape, you’re welcome to stop by and take out my CD on our pond. I think it’s a great all around boat, and the GTS would be a good fit for you. (I’m not selling it, just offering you some seat time to see how that design works for you…).
Cute dog! And thanks for the offer. I actually do not live in Boston but am passing through on my travels. Yes, I look at CL kayaks when I travel! In fact I bought my Avocet on the Cape while I was there visiting friends.
Coincidentally another boat I’m considering is an Impex Montauk. If you don’t mind my asking, what is your size and how was the fit? Tippiness isn’t usually an issue for me, for whatever reason I’ve yet to sit in a boat I found tippy.
Rsevenic: bummer about the disc, but great you still stretch! Unfortunately I’m not going to be able to paddle the boat if I do go see it. So that’ll really limit my ability to test the ease of entry & exit. I’m so on the fence about this.
The Ellesmere I refer to above is an ocean cockpit version. The Ellesmere has been made with an ocean cockpit and keyhole. It’s currently only available with a keyhole cockpit. I’ve seen it referred to as the Ellesmere and the Ellesmere OC. The keyhole version should be easy to get in butt first for most.
@Doggy Paddler said:
Rsevenic: bummer about the disc, but great you still stretch! Unfortunately I’m not going to be able to paddle the boat if I do go see it. So that’ll really limit my ability to test the ease of entry & exit. I’m so on the fence about this.
You could bring a couple of pool noodles, set the boat on them over the bulkheads, and try a dry entry and exit. Good way to check the fit as well.
Is a 21" beam boat plus a small cockpit a good combo for a beginner?
Sounds like more of an intermediate/advanced boat based on beam. And a wet exit in a small cockpit may be slightly panic inducing depending on your comfort level being upside down and the circumstances that caused the capsize.
As you can see from posts above there are pros and cons of both.
Back in '84 I purchased a Nordkapp with an ocean cockpit (at that time Valley didn’t make boats with keyhole cockpits). I paddled it for over 30 years before purchasing a NDK Greenlander Pro (in 2015) with a keyhole cockpit. While I still paddle both I spend more time in the Greenlander Pro due to having a day hatch, a skeg and a keyhole cockpit.
Here are MY pros and cons of the ocean cockpit:
Pros: When I’m in rough seas or rolling I prefer an ocean cockpit as I feel the boat is more of an extension of my body, I can jam my knees into the under deck and not worry about them slipping and popping off my sprayskirt (which has happened in my Greenlander Pro). Plus living in Florida my legs don’t get sunburned while I’m paddling my Nordkapp without a skirt in calm conditions (I always have my skirt available should conditions change and have a splash deck skirt for my Greenlander Pro to reduce the chance of sun burn).
Cons: At 69 I’m not as nimble as I used to be, and getting in and out of the Nordkapp’s ocean cockpit is definitely more difficult. I’m 6"4" and have no hair on my legs below the knee due to getting in and out of my Nordkapp. I have to sit on the deck behind the cockpit and slide into the boat, my long legs running across the inside conning. If you’re on a beach it’s easy, but if you’re in the water it can be difficult, especially if it’s rough.
Just as I paddle with a euroblade and Greenland paddle, have a hard chine and soft chine boat, I’m happy to have both ocean and keyhole cockpits as it gives me a different experience on the water.
I definitely suggest you try before you buy as the ocean cockpit can be a love/hate relationship.
If you look at that boat I would look at the bottom very closely. The cracking might be spider vein cracks which can leak and be very difficult to repair. There is a reason why that boat is so cheap! I would pass on it.
OK, thank you everyone for all the interesting and truly helpful input. I have decided I’m going to keep looking.
Doug - very helpful description of the pros and cons.
McImes, I was actually most attracted to the 21" beam; I paddle a boat that’s 22" and it feels a bit too wide to me. And I don’t have an issue with tippiness, or at least have never yet, I’m sure it’s possible I could get in this boat and feel like it’s too tippy, though - there’s always a first!
BUT the ocean cockpit does kind of freak me out a little bit. I got into one once and I know what you have to do to enter and exit. I had help, though, and was with some very experienced paddlers. So it was fine then, but not sure how it would be on my own. I definitely want to be able to get in and out easily on my own, and I think I better learn more and gain more confidence in an easier boat before throwing something that adds another layer of difficulty into the mix.
Also there’s the issue of the condition, which shiraz627 and some other people have brought up, and finally, this seems like it’d be a hard boat to re-sell if I decided it wasn’t right for me. And I can’t try it out. So thanks for helping me get to a decision!
I’ll offer a bit more perspective. Doug is absolutely correct, but it’s important to point out the the Nordkapp for someone his size is an absolutely worst case scenario. It has a high aft deck and not much difference in height to the foredeck, so getting long legs in and out is an issue. I had the same problem with my old Nordkapp HM. You won’t have this issue with the Atlantic LV due to its lower aft deck and your shorter legs.
While the hull is scratched, that’s typical of boats used in this area (I’m in NH), due to the rocky nature of many of the beaches. As long as the gelcoat isn’t worn through, I wouldn’t worry about it.
The fact that a spray skirt is included is nice, as you won’t have to source one. The Quaser skirt is good quality.
As for resale, you’re only paying $500 for it, assuming that you don’t get it even cheaper. That’s a screaming deal for a 'glass boat! If I was in the market for a play boat, I’d considering myself.
While the hull is scratched, that’s typical of boats used in this area (I’m in NH), due to the rocky nature of many of the beaches. As long as the gelcoat isn’t worn through, I wouldn’t worry about it.
As for resale, you’re only paying $500 for it, assuming that you don’t get it even cheaper. That’s a screaming deal for a 'glass boat! If I was in the market for a play boat, I’d considering myself.
If you look at the hull closely, it’s very clear that there are cracks in the gelcoat. That’s an issue, I had that happen to my QCC 400X. Eventually water made it’s way to the fabric.
@MCImes A smaller and narrower boat is as stable as a barge for a big person. One of my boats has 19.5 inches at the waterline. An 6 ft guy would find it too delicate, if they could get into it to start with. At 5 ft 4 and 135 lb it is dead solid for me.
Your legs may be short enough to make entering easier than it would be for someone taller like me. Only one way to know for sure is to sit in it. We can’t do that for you.
I think North Shore called their cockpit a “modified ocean cockpit”. At 5’ 10" when I sit in the seat with my legs out of the cockpit I can almost bring them in, If you can sit in the seat and bring your legs in one at a time then I would consider buying it that’s if other things considered are satisfactory. If not then you may want to keep looking.
I do like the contact I have with my boat when seated. I have learned how to st on the hull and slip in feet first, but if the cockpit was 1.5" longer I could sit in the seat and then bring my legs in. It is the one thing I would change, but I use my Buccaneer the most in spite of that.
I happen to agree with everything bnystrom and Doug said. Just make sure it isn’t cracked and is just scratches. Though cracks can be repaired.
@Doggy Paddler said:
Cute dog! And thanks for the offer. I actually do not live in Boston but am passing through on my travels. Yes, I look at CL kayaks when I travel! In fact I bought my Avocet on the Cape while I was there visiting friends.
Coincidentally another boat I’m considering is an Impex Montauk. If you don’t mind my asking, what is your size and how was the fit? Tippiness isn’t usually an issue for me, for whatever reason I’ve yet to sit in a boat I found tippy.
You’re welcome!
I’ve only spent a few minutes so far in the Impex, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Lots of people love the Impex, calling it the “sports car” of kayaks. And to answer, your question, I’m 5’6" and 155 lbs.
The Solstice GTS fits me perfectly. And while the Perception is a bit big for me, it’s still a surprisingly fast boat. Perfect for my wife, who appreciates a big stable boat.
@shiraz627 said:
If you look at the hull closely, it’s very clear that there are cracks in the gelcoat. That’s an issue, I had that happen to my QCC 400X. Eventually water made it’s way to the fabric.
Gelcoat cracks are par for the course and are nothing to worry about. “Spider cracks” are common and are purely cosmetic. Water will not work it’s way into the laminate unless it’s damaged from the impact. Racing boats don’t use gelcoat and have no problems with water getting into the laminate. That said, it’s always a good idea to examine a used boat from the inside to see if their is any laminate damage. You can also tell a lot by pushing on the area with your thumb; if it yields easily, it’s damaged.
@castoff said:
I think North Shore called their cockpit a “modified ocean cockpit”. At 5’ 10" when I sit in the seat with my legs out of the cockpit I can almost bring them in, If you can sit in the seat and bring your legs in one at a time then I would consider buying it that’s if other things considered are satisfactory. If not then you may want to keep looking.
The major benefits of an ocean cockpit are only realized if it’s small enough that your knees are always under the foredeck. If you can pull your legs out while seated, you effectively have a keyhole cockpit, regardless of its actual shape. It’s certainly possible that the cockpit on this boat would function like a keyhole for a petite paddler. I’d say it would be worth her time to check it out and see.
Typical keyhole cockpits are often too large for smaller paddlers, requiring the addition of padding to move the thigh braces backward and inward to where their legs naturally sit. They also make it difficult for shorter paddlers to reach items on the foredeck (chart, gloves, hood, spare paddle, etc.).
That is a good point in regards to getting to items stored in front of the cockpit of a keyhole. Also to consider is where the seat is located in relation to the opening. Of the 2 kayaks I have, one cockpit is 26 Inches, the 2nd is 34 inches; there is not 6 inches of addition space in front of me with the 34 inch one, because the seat is more forward in relation to the back of the cockpit rim
Good point. However, seats are not easy to move in most cases and moving the seat can adversely affect the boat’s handling, since it changes the centers of gravity and buoyancy. For example, moving the seat forward will make a boat more prone to weathercocking.
Don’t forget that a boat with the same beam and even same cockpit shape can have different deck heights, a significant factor in leg position and comfort and ease of entry/exit. Most kayaks vary in deck height by at least 2-3", higher deck height:longer legs.
I never have mentioned it because I hate to come off pretentious, but Nigel Dennis praised my Arctic Hawk build and commented specifically on the Ocean Cockpits pros. He didn’t paddle it. :’( I’m a little stiff getting into the SOF but I can slip in and out of the Hawk like it’s silk pantaloons. I built up experience slowly to grow into using OC, but not exclusively.
I still have this tub, my first SOF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jsjxVRu-4c I had the bilge pump wedged under the coaming over my knees or I would fall right out . I would say if you are an aggressive athletic beginner go for the OC.
