Is there a practical water temperature when you quit kayaking for the season?

Yes. We agree. Rolling practice in the beginning of the day paddle becomes more important from late fall through winter. Don’t want any “surprises” on a “combat roll” in cold water. The sensation of cold water head immersion has to be “normalized” into bodily sensation/expectation.

sing

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Self-rescue is a little different in moving water rivers. In moving water the common advice is to assume the safe swimming position – on your back, feet near the surface and pointing downstream. You use your feet to bounce off rocks, and back stroke/back ferry to move yourself laterally across the river to avoid hazards. All the time you need to control your breathing as the current tries to push you under, drop you into holes and submerge you repeatedly in standing waves.

Trouble is, the longer you are in the rapid in this passive position, the more likely you are to get pinned, stuck in a hole, or just flush drowned. Especially in a long rapid, you need to be looking for a way to get out of the rapid ASAP. When the opportunity presents itself, you need to rollover and swim hard to get there. Swimming in moving water is exhausting, so the faster you get out the better.

All of this applies regardless of water temperature, but cold water adds two very significant complications – cold shock reduces your ability to control your breathing, and cold water incapacitation effects your muscles and reduces your ability to swim. In big rapids, you usually don’t last long enough to get hypothermic.

Cold water protection is important – I am in the drysuit camp all the way. In cold water it is also important to paddle well within your skill level, and not get yourself into trouble in the first place.

Famous last words…

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To be clear, I think immersion protection is important - be it with a drysuit or a wetsuit (I happen to own multiples of each). What I find sometimes in these forums is this “reductionism” of coldwater paddling safety to having a drysuit because of the overemphasis on it. As I stated above, safety in coldwater paddling (or all paddling) is related to:

sing

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as said above colder it gets more conservative I get on my outings with waves and winds.

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I just wish we could give more options to folks like the OP since I think there must be lots of recreational paddlers that could use a little immersion protection without spending more money on a dry suit than they spent on their boat.

If someone is going to ignore advice and paddle anyway then I think they should wear multiple layers of tight-fitting synthetic clothes because that does help a little even if it’s not as good as neoprene. You can buy neoprene shorts on Amazon for under $20 and a zip-up neoprene “sauna vest” for about $20. I’d like to know which ones to recommend. My 0.5 mm NRS helmet liner provides some head insulation for $28 and it’s nice and warm. Thin neoprene gloves from NRS can be used for more than just paddling. Maybe some folks can find a neoprene top like an NRS Hydroskin that they like wearing in cool weather (neoprene can be cozy) and buy one during the annual 40% off sale and then they’'d only need cheap neoprene shorts to have a decent immersion protection system for late Spring and early Fall. If someone doesn’t have a dry bag for dry clothes all they need is two garbage bags and tape…just put your clothes in one and twist the top and tape down then drop into second bag and repeat

I didn’t like seeing the OP just cancel plans to paddle. My biggest concern for the OP is that they could somehow end up offshore where immersion is not short term but if they have the judgement and confidence to stay near shore then I think that adding “light” immersion protection is all they need.

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We have a good example of what can happen this time of year right here. (Obviously other issues in this case - bad weather, no PFD, but still.)

https://forums.paddling.com/t/another-kayak-tragedy-this-time-at-a-place-i-often-paddle/127525

I get it, buying the gear is expensive, but I’m not sure we should be encouraging people to go out with inadequate gear either. Drysuits are great, but not everyone needs one. Wetsuits can be just as effective, and generally less expensive. Everyone says “I’ll stay close to shore”, but I think most people overestimate how far they can swim in cold water (or even warm water for that matter).

Dear TomL,

Fear not, I am only thinking of canceling paddling plans because the weather is forecast to be borderline awful. Not so much in terms of temperature but opening a vacation with 4 straight days of rain isn’t encouraging me.

As I explained earlier in the thread my wife and I kayak mostly to observe and photograph wildlife, and to fish. I don’t mind fishing in any weather, but the wife won’t want to spend the day sitting in a kayak when it’s 50 degrees and raining. Likewise, my camera gear can survive dampness and moisture with no issues, but I’m not about to keep it stowed in a waterproof camera bag or dry bag for most of an outing. Not having easy access to the camera makes for limited opportunities.

We go somewhere every Fall to take foliage and nature pictures. This coming week doesn’t look like we chose the best week. It is what it is and we will find something else to do.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my question. At the very least I learned some things and more importantly other members have gotten the opportunity to learn.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg PA :slight_smile:

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eBay and Facebook marketplace are full of inexpensive little-used neoprene garments.

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Jumping into cold water is an invitation for the gag reflex.

Sure, I agree in principle that we need to be careful about recommending marginal stuff. And we rarely know enough about the paddlers and their paddling venues to make optimum recommendations so it’s good to be conservative.

But even you are saying that immersion protection is expensive. For some folks that may be true and I’m also in the camp of “you get what you pay for” but I firmly believe that there are good low cost options for recreational paddlers out there that never get discussed on this forum. I’d lend cold water gear to someone if they asked and as doggy paddler points out you can look for used neoprene. I’ve bought some Chinese neoprene from Amazon that seems like good quality even though inexpensive. I think it’s good to remind folks that you want to make sure your PFD is snug when paddling in cold water since it insulates better when snug.

I’d love to see something on coldwatersafety.org about low cost immersion protection.

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The weather here in SW MI is also interfering with my paddling.

:slightly_smiling_face:

Dear TomL,

I agree with the idea of lower cost protection. At 6’5" and 300 pounds nothing new is low cost or even readily available. I have an older pair of neoprene chest waders and a pair of neoprene muck boots that would adequately protect me if I elected to paddle in foul Fall weather.

We do have good quality raingear so excursions on foot will be the order of the day, or so it appears.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg PA :wink:

I’ve had some brand name drysuits- like kokatat, stolquist but now I go semi-dry with off brands- gul, palm, typhoon marketed toward sailor and kite boarders over in europe, suits made in china,
but works well for what I do- running smaller rivers and creeks , not far from shore and I find them more comfortable with the neoprene rather than latex neck gasket. https://www.watersportsoutlet.com is my go to for this, wore this suit on sunday- didn’t swim but would have been fine:
2022 Typhoon Hypercurve 4 Back Zip Drysuit & Underfleece 100179 - Red / Black | Watersports Outlet

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Your willingness to be flexible when nature doesn’t give you what you want will help you stay safe.

Have fun on your VACATION. It doesn’t always have to be about doing a particular activity.

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parachutes aren’t cheap either so i stay in the plane. :scream:

if you go submerged in the water that gear will not do much to help you.

Agree. The side stroke also doesn’t require as much attention to breathing as the breast stroke and crawl since your mouth and nose remain out of the water. Works better for older people with limited range of motion in shoulders or hips, saves energy, easy to rest between strokes, good glide between strokes. Nice streamlined stroke. Even small movements of the arms and legs will keep you moving forward with the side stroke if you don’t have full range of motion.

I was taught a crawl when I was younger. I stank at it even then. But I can flip around between side or breast or back all day long, slower yes, and still see where I am going. One of those who cannot open my eyes under water which makes for some awkward landings at the end of a lap.

Biggest single talent in the water IMO is to know how to keep enough air in your lungs to aid in flotation as needed. After that it is just the details of where you place arms and legs.

Dear PaddleDog,

I’ve been submerged up to my neck in 40-degree water wearing those waders and I’m still typing.

You could easily overturn in 75-degree water and hit your head on a rock and be dead or have a broken neck too.

Leaving the house requires risk taking. The question becomes how much of a risk one is willing to accept? That is a personal choice. In this case I see no advantage to kayaking in the rain and trying to take pictures so there is no need to worry.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg PA :slight_smile:

how long do you think you’d last in 40° water up to you neck in your gear. How would you do swimming in it?

People kayaking near rocks wear helmets if they want to reduce risks. I’ve done risky things but always look to reduce the risk. Quality drysuit reduces risk greatly.

People around here wear a winter jackets and feel their risk is covered till it’s not.

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