so don’t use an exquisite paddle,
you’re not gonna care how pretty it looks when your getten’ tossed upside down in middle keenys at 4 1/2 feet. I got a ton of stuff wrong with my paddlin’ but ain’t got no crabs and bow pins are something I like avoiden’.
I should add …
… some things to the CLR locus analysis that others have said in other ways.
For a solo canoeist, I think hull shapes, loads and seating position should be arranged so the CLR is next to a kneeling canoeist kneecaps – that is, at about the center of the power portion of a forward stroke. (This will almost always require an asymmetrical hull, but I don’t want to re-litigate that 300 post thread.)
The point is that if the CLR is at your knees, the power (pull) portion of your stroke won’t have much of a (sweep) tendency to yaw the canoe to the off-side. Hence there won’t be much correction force required, and it can easily be applied aside the hip via a J push or, more elegantly, via the loaded forward slice of the Canadian/Florida stroke.
In addition, again assuming the CLR is at your knees, you can “pre-correct” to the on-side during the power (pull) portion of the stroke by either slight bow draw (C-stroke) or by a pitched paddle blade (pitch stroke). Using either or both of these pre-corrections, which can be very subtle, there may be nothing left to correct at all by the time your blade reaches your hip.
I agree with guideboatguy’s
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line of analysis. Ever ride a bike? What do you do when you come to an obstacle or a turn... do you over-think what to do step by step, or do you subconsciously just execute what needs to be done with practically no thought at all of the mechanics? If the latter, then that is how you should be handling a paddle. An instructor of mine used to say: "just get your head in the water", meaning that the whole system of body, paddle, canoe, and water are to be thought of as one smoothly operating unit.
I race canoes. As far as 1000 miles at a time in the Yukon. For that I hit and switch as the fastest, but definitely least pleasant way to move a canoe. I think that is an unfortunate stroke, necessary for competition. But when not racing, or even when solo training without my crew, I much prefer the more elegant side of paddling a canoe.
A correctly executed J should not have any hesitation at the end, no "rudder" component (unless that is what is actually needed for a particular maneuver circumstance). I paddle for hours and hours at a time. My strokes are varied as needed, and done without conscious thinking, they just happen. Most consist of some combination of pitch, J, Canadian, and C (with an occasional box stroke thrown in for variety if I am using my favorite straight wood, rather than a bent shaft). Whatever is needed, or not. Each stroke strives to be smooth and a continuously moving cycle.
Every year I train 20 or so young adult trek leaders for BSA, most with very little real or effective paddling experience. Once we get beyond the tendency to thumb up rudder several seconds on every stroke, they move to what I consider a mistake with the J, when they begin to do an exaggerated "push out" at the hip rather than ever slightly behind. It mostly does not work very well for them. The power phase should end at the hip, but a follow-through with blade continuing somewhat aft will be much more effective in course correction. The farther from the pivot point of the canoe, the less force is needed.
Depending on the student and what they are doing incorrectly, I will have them hold a J rudder far aft while the bowman maintains a slow speed. I have them hold J rudder on the same side, turning the canoe left and right by moving the blade and grip in or out. Actually leaning way back with the blade as far aft as possible amplifies the maneuvering with very little force. This also corrects another common mistake of not having the blade vertical in the water at this point. Once they develop the feel for that kind of maneuvering (head in the water), I have them take a single stroke to a J, still with a slight hesitation to a J rudder. Working on form and smoothness always, and varying the distance the blade travels aft as needed. Nothing should stress muscles at all. The goal is smoothness of correction while understanding eventually to not hold any rudder at all by keeping the stroke in a constant unhesitating cycle. Do it right and there should be very little need for much correction at all.
Gradually I have them increase stroke rate while decreasing any end of stroke hesitation finally to zero, and only applying as much slight J as needed from stroke to stroke. Now they are in a position to experiment with bringing the correction phase closer to the hip, but still always blade acting somewhat behind the hip. No more J rudder, just a smooth continuous motion. Varying components of pitch and Canadian strokes can now develop from that. It is like riding a bike. I have been teaching this way for more than 20 years and it seems to work in most cases.
Great insights
I gained a much better understanding of the physical forces involved from this
thread. I can’t wait to experiment a bit more next time I paddle. Thanks much.
couple of points
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It varies slightly from person to person but for me if I am kneeling in a symmetrical hull my hip joint will be centered about 4 1/2" aft of transverse center axis of the hull if the boat is trimmed neutrally.
I have found that many stock solo canoes come with seat placement such that they are actually trimmed somewhat bow light, and occasionally markedly bow light (the paddler's hips are more than 4 1/2" aft of the center of buoyancy).
Furthermore, the pivot point of a symmetrical hull underway is generally significantly forward of the center.
All of this means that if you are executing correction with the paddle blade at your hip, it will be behind the pivot point of the canoe. It may not be a long distance behind it, but it will not just push the boat sideways.
As I said before, the J stroke is not a strong correction stroke. It isn't meant to be. It is a smooth stroke that, if done correctly, slows paddle cadence minimally and provides enough correction to counteract the tendency of the forward stroke to yaw the boat toward a solo paddler's off-side.
If you are paddling solo and find that the J stroke doesn't provide enough correction without taking the blade way back in the stern quarter then you can try a C stroke by adding a bit of a diagonal draw toward the hull at the beginning of your forward stroke as suggested by tdaniel. I don't find a need to use the C stroke just to go straight, but it is useful to initiate a turn or carve to your on-side.
But when you really need to correct the bow toward your on-side I would use a stern pry and get the blade way back and right next to the hull. If you are going to take the time to put the blade way back, at least use a stroke that is about 3 times more effective than a J stroke, and I would agree with tdaniel about levering off the gunwale if and when you have to.
This has been something of a pet peeve with me as I have sometimes been involved in introducing folks who have been flat water canoeists to white water. It seems that ever since brother Bill Mason castigated the stern pry as the "goon stroke", some flat water paddlers eschew its use and insist on clinging to the less effective J stroke in situations in which it is not sufficient. It takes much less time to do one properly executed stern pry than 3 or 4 ineffective J strokes.
a website that might help
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http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~burchil/pm_canoe/subtle_correction.html
I can't honestly say that any of those techniques in the video exactly match what or how "I think" I paddle but the canadian and knifing come pretty close. However, all of my stroke recoveries end out of the water. I'm just a little different that's all. A quick upward dollop for a correction sets up the paddle feathering forward out of the water. My strokes are definately shorter and a bit more forward than in the video. I spent about 12 years boating a whitewater c1. So I think my strokes evolved to reflect that style and environment. I like the idea of being videoed and comparing how I think I paddle to seeing how I actually paddle. I just might be surprised!
stern pry
I do use the stern pry (including leveraging off the gunwale) or C-stroke
occasionally for major corrections, like when starting up from a standstill and
before switching to a J once underway. As you say, once the blade is already way
back in the stern you may as well do a more effective correction.
I just noticed that (incorrectly and inefficiently) moving the J back a little
bit helps with strain. I bet I just need to paddle much faster and I’d need
less correction. Maybe I should mention that the boat I solo is a 16.6
tandem from a kneeling thwart.
The way most people do their "J"
way behind them, it isn’t any better, may worse, than the rudder or goon stroke.
Peripatetic pivot point and goon stroke
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I will reluctantly use the term pivot point instead of CLR, but say that the claim that the pivot point moves forward with forward speed is debatable in concept and practical effect.
Let's stay with practical effect for the solo canoeist. To do a drawing or prying sideslip without yaw, the fulcrum ray of the paddle blade needs to be aimed at the pivot point. Try a drawing sideslip at speed and see whether the fulcrum ray is pointing ahead of you. Then do a prying sideslip and see where the fulcrum ray points, which should be the same place. Is it ahead of you?
The goon stroke is effective for one or a couple of strong corrections in whitewater, but is inefficient and tiresome for repeated forward strokes. This is because the power face is pointed in the wrong direction (inward) in order to do efficient in-water returns for recovery corrections (Canadian/Florida stroke) or for palm rolls with in-water returns (Indian stroke).
With experience it's all about flowing blends of strokes and paddle angles that you just do by pressure feel depending on the hull you're in, your seating position, your stroke rate and the type of paddle you are using. If your J corrections seems tiresome or muscularly hurtful, you're probably doing it wrong. It took me about 30 years to get it smooth and effortless. However, you could cut that down by about 29.5 years with good instruction and intelligent practice.
In the meantime, I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing a J stroke behind the hip for casual stroke rate paddling. You do get more leverage at some cost of increased total stroke and recovery length.
Perfectly stated Glenn
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and much the same as my experience as well (including the 30 year part). A paddle stroke should be smooth, continuous, effective and comfortable. Each individual stroke doesn't have to fit into any one formal defined stroke, but it and the next can be a blend of patterns that are effective and pleasant for both you and the motion of the boat. Find a good instructor early, or stay at it long enough and you will discover that you have become one, suited to your own likes and style.