I found myself using the pitch more lately. Had 7.5 hours to work on strokes but also lots of hazards to steer around with bow steering and shuttling.
yknpdlr: “…the whole stroke with end correction phase is normally done as a single smoothly executed continuous motion without any definite hesitation at any point before immediately exiting the water to the recovery portion of the stroke.”
Agreed. He is very smooth! I also noticed that he pried off the gunwale with his arm. When I’m padddling in flatwater with a partner at speed (5-8+ km/h), I do a modified J (the blade is beside my hip rather than behind it) or I do a minor correction as I recover. I very rarely do my J behind my hip. When I do the modified J, I tend to pry the paddle shaft off the gunwale. My lower hand does very little work. However, that prying action is noisy and kills paddles, so I pad the shaft to dampen the noise and protect the paddle.
If it is a wood paddle shaft, why don’t you just take some sandpaper to it and slim it down and reshape it a bit a better suit your hand? It is your paddle, after all. You can then refinish the shaft with some Tung oil.
I would need to plane them down. We’re talking a quarter inch or more. I chuckle at all these video stills with guys showing 2 knuckles on the front of their paddle. You can see all my knuckles and my fingernails too. Like I said, I have to buy the smallest golf glove available. Today will be the metal and plastic paddles, though–doing The Pine near Wellston, Mich.
Jeffski, Right, I do not extend the J behind my hip unless a major correction is needed, then it becomes much more of a ruddering action. A different type of stroke may be necessary if that kind of correction is much needed.
When teaching new paddlers control stokes, one school of thought is to go ahead and at first let them do the (more natural for them) thumb up rudder (goon). Instuctor pushes to give some velocity to the canoe while standing in shallow water so stern paddler gets an idea of how to hold the paddle on one side to make the canoe go left or right ( which can be done while paddling on just one side, depending on how close to stern the paddle blade is held and the blade angle). Whatever it takes to give them feel of water on the paddle and confidence that they have complete left/right directional control. Next, bow paddler slowly power strokes just enough to maintain forward speed as the exercise continues. Then, to get to the J, they need to break the thumb up rudder habit and learn to roll their grip holding wrist to get to a true constant power face J doing the same exercise of control to turn left or right, depending on how far from the stern they hold the paddle and the angle of the blade in the water. Stern paddler, take just one stroke, hold J to go straight. Slowly add more stokes with J as needed. Work on lessening the drift too far back far behind the hip with the paddle at the end of the stroke. Why go to the J at all? So that (when ready) they can learn more advanced strokes that naturally. progress from a correctly held J. Can’t all be done in single day learning session.
And no, I do not ever pry off the gunwale with either my paddle or my hand. I have never found the need to do so with a smooth forward stroke. There are times when a pry stroke is useful, but usually done only by the stern paddler (in my case) when paddling a large heavy voyageur canoe to effect in rounding a short narrow river turn, not a as matter of normal forward practice. A sweep to a hard draw has the opposite effect. Otherwise the pry (or “pushaway”) is used when stationary to side slip on the deep water side of shallows when a draw is ineffective on the opposite side. I almost never find such a paddle on gunwale pry very useful.
I certainly do not leverage my finely finished wood paddle against my finished wood gunwales ( or carbon or aluminum gunwales). I keep where I grip my paddle shaft smooth on my hand by avoiding this. In some of Bill Mason’s videos you can see where his paddle is very nearly worn in half in one spot from the way he has pryed against the gunwale.
There is nothing wrong with the long, lazy J stroke technique that Marc is demonstrating. Allowing the paddle shaft to pass way behind the hip to position the blade at the very stern of the boat well aft of the pivot point means that very little outward pressure is required to maintain heading.
But if you need to go somewhere fairly fast this type of stroke is very inefficient. It is possible that Marc is exaggerating the correction phase but if you look carefully you will see that over half of the stroke excursion (time the blade is in the water) is taken up by the correction and less than half taken up by the power phase. This cuts the paddle cadence to less than half of what it could be.
If you use the technique demonstrated by Marc, and I certainly do for lazy paddling, you might try feathering the blade to a neutral position as the blade reaches the hip on its way to the stern of the boat. I don’t see that demonstrated in the video. Feathering the blade so that it is vertical reduces the tendency of the paddle to “lift water” and slow the canoe.
Here is another video demonstrating the type of J stroke that most whitewater canoe paddlers use.
Multiple strokes are demonstrated but discussion of the J stroke begins around the 1:54 minute mark. Note that the J stroke executed by the stern paddler is much shorter than in Marc’s video. The grip hand begins rotation much earlier, shortly after the paddle shaft passes the knee of the kneeling paddler. The entire stroke is completed by the time the paddle shaft reaches the hip.
By the time the paddle shaft reaches the hip, the blade of the paddle is of course a bit behind the body, but the shaft hand of the paddler never passes behind the hip. This is very different than the technique demonstrated by Marc and allows for a higher stroke cadence. The shorter J stroke also allows the stern paddler to better remain in sync with the bow paddler’s stroke.
Although the video describes prying the paddle shaft off the gunwale for both the J stroke and river J, it is not necessary to do so. For a power stroke/stern pry combo (“river J”) where a strong pry correction is required I will often interpose my grip hand between the gunwale and the paddle shaft and in effect pry off of my hand.
I am not saying one technique is correct and the other wrong. These are different ways of executing a J stroke that are applicable to different types and styles of paddling.
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Block plane, wood rasp, electric finish sander, or best yet find a woodworker and borrow his or her spokeshave. Regardless of tools used I wood take it down a little at a time with a trial paddle after each modification.
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A prolific paddle maker I know takes his sawn rough cut out shaped blank wood paddle and he continues to to the finished shape using sharp edge plate steel and the sharp edge of a broken glass pane before final sanding to smooth.
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Yup. The whole point for me as a tandem, is to paddle at a highish cadence (45ish) in sync. Falling out of sync causes the boat to really rock side to side. An alternative is the sit and switch method, but I find that a bit too intense.
The pry off the gunwale is very gentle and saves a lot of effort. If we’re paddling slowly enough, I can even take my shaft (lower) hand off the paddle momentarily. A short gentle pull onboard on the grip is all it takes to correct the angle.
Lately, I’ve graduated to a forward and upward slice from my hip. In calm water that’s all I need to keep the boat going straight.
BTW, my shaft is unbent and the blade is quite small, just a bit wider than an ottertail.
The question should never be tape or gloves. If things are correct with your Forward w/ J-correction or paddle then this irritation should not be happening. Whether it’s a thick shaft, technique, or you holding your mouth wrong, the possibility is very high that you are not achieving the efficiency that should be. If you’re going to be paddling a lot then figure it out. You’ll be happier in the long run.
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Use the C stroke. Begin as j then sweep under the boat to control the finish of stroke.
Hello Tundrawalker, I normally do not use the J-stroke. I personally think it is wrong, hard on the wrist joint, two areas of stress, and classically the pry against the gunwale will damage the shaft.
I feel strongly that the J-stroke is a wonderful technique for a lake with a long slender blade, otter or beaver, but not for extended travel, or rivers.
I use the denigrated stroke, the Gooney. Done properly, fully extended toward the rear, the transverse of the blade absolutely vertical in a rudder position, the wrist stays absolutely square to your arm (no twisting), the pressure on either hand approaches zero, chafe and blisters almost do not occur, and when traveling, you only need the correction stroke every 2 or 3 strokes. You nearly eliminate the stress points and chafe. I use the J-stroke on quiet rivers, quiet lakes, when I have a long slender blade, and if out on the large river or lake with a crosswind, I often use the Canadian, because keeping the blade buried on the return stroke decreases leeward drift. 68 y.o., 58 years at the stern, I paddle 600 to 1000 miles per year. And I do have some fairly well developed calluses on the inside knuckles of my thumbs normally.
If you want to travel some serious distances, dump all three techniques and switch paddle, more efficient, faster.
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paddler,
You say you often use the Canadian, but you do not use the proper J. How does your blade get into the power face of the Canadian from the goon rudder? Doing so would require an awkward and inefficient flip of the blade to get to the normal Canadian. The Canadian entry naturally flows from a properly held J. As you say, you only need a correction stroke every 2 or 3 strokes. That is also true if you use a proper J, only rarely needed when straight cruising. If otherwise, then you have other conditions happening, be it wind or not stacking your hands on the stroke employing a vertically held shaft.
My 6-7 member voyageur canoe team also paddles in excess of 1000 miles per year in many years. When we train for the Yukon River races (serious distances - either 440 or 1000 miles), each team member is expected to accumulate and log as many as 1000 total miles, either in training or racing solo, or with the team during training or local shorter races in the year before traveling to the Yukon.
Normal stroke rate is at least 60 spm, hit and switch mode when racing, except for the stern paddler at his/her call option as necessary for steerage. When I train solo (I’m 69 y.o.) I most often paddle a fast pitch stroke or J into a Canadian at a slightly slower rate, staying many minutes on the same side before switching. Done right, the skin inside the thumb gets tough over time, but not sore.
Just a slight misunderstanding here, all my fault for not being clear. I use all the strokes, (I think a few of them may not have names). I am your age. My wrist just does not like to turn upside down beyond a few times or a single day. I suspect you are no different. I do not always do anything. If the str9oke would benefit by being a J-stroke, well it is. I don’t think about it, I just do it. I do NOT race or compete. I just paddle and camp along the way as often as I can, usually a couple of times a year or a really long trip. My longest I suspect you would laugh at, the Yukon , in my opinion, is another whole level. My longest was the entire Green River and a right turn at the Confluence of the Colorado with a finish in Lake Havasu City. But consider, 3 resupply points and the occasional burger or breakfast along the way, and needed aluminum to replace gunwales in Page Arizona. I normally use the Gooney, and I too sometimes have to remind myself to swap sides. To me, the Gooney, remember I use a long paddle because of the rapids, 64 or 67 inch, that paddle is so far behind me that I can rudder in either direction, and there is nearly zero stress on hands or arms. The palm grip is just finger held. The fastest I go is sliding down the tongue into a major rapid (up to 18.5), the usual is 20 strokes a minute and 3 mph or less. When I work it, yeah, I can do 60 strokes, and top out at 5mph for about 15 minutes ,tops. Your team would rightfully laugh at me.
I like going downstream, days off to sit under a tree and read, the puzzle of picking a route through a boisterous rapids.
But, I AM very much in favour of a Gooney stroke. Done correctly, it is very easy, my wrist stays square, no blisters, no sore wrist. I think a J-stroke may be very slightly faster, but with the downside of effort and calories expended. Ah, did not think about that before, calories. If I am doing 25 to 40 miles per day, I am eating 6 to 10 thousand calories per day. The Gooney uses much fewer calories, even if a tiny bit slower.
Pitch stroke? A term I am unfamiliar with. Explain? Thanks,
Dean
In the pitch stroke the paddle blade does not deviate laterally outboard at all. During the power stroke the grip hand is rotated thumb forward progressively altering the pitch of the blade, but keeping the grip hand over the shaft hand and the paddle shaft more or less vertical. The angle of the blade produces a vector of lateral force toward the hull during the latter portion of the stroke. It can allow for a faster stroke cadence than the J stroke, but still requires some grip hand rotation, although typically not as much as the J stroke.
I have known a number of pretty experienced paddlers who have given up on the J stroke because of arthritic wrists. Rotation of the shaft hand can be eliminated or minimized during the J stroke by loosening the grip, but the J stroke requires considerable ulnar deviation at the grip hand as the thumb is rotated forward and that can be painful for people with bad wrists. You are absolutely correct that the “goon stroke”, “river J”, power stroke/stern pry combo can be done while maintaining a completely neutral grip hand wrist.
And for what it is worth, those paddlers I have known that use that stroke seem to give up very little, if anything when it comes to straight ahead efficiency.
So as I said, my straight line correction stroke is the thumb down J, whIch does not bother me to do all day. When solo I generally stay on each side for a long time, as I dislike hit and switch every few stokes, although H&S is absolutely necessary whenever racing or race training. The smooth J requires absolutely no hesitation at the end of the stroke to a vertical blade thumb down “rudder” if that is necessary, and the entire stroke and recovery is done in one continuous easy movement without stopping or slowing anywhere. I notice many beginners using thumbs up rudder holding that rudder hesitation much longer than it should be necessary, resulting in massive yawing and corrections left and right. (Instruction technique for beginners is an entirely different topic).
I had long ago naturally morphed my J into what I later learned was called the pitch stroke, which is essentially an early implementation of the J by rotating the blade ever so slightly outward during the second half of the power phase of the stroke, implemented by rotating the grip thumb out and away slightly (always with a vertically held shaft). Further rotation results in a more powerful thumb down full on J correction if needed. In most cases this is sufficient to maintain very little noticeable yaw of the bow during each stroke of straight line forward motion.
Rarely to never when racing but often when recreating, the pitch or J easily slips into a power face up Canadian (essentially an extended underwater J) to recover the stroke mostly underwater. When intentionally moving slowly and deliberately, the same initial implementation can easily result in the silent “Indian stroke”, a fully underwater recovery with a half rotation of the paddle and reversal of the power face on each stroke (only possible when using a straight blade, not a bent).
The majority of my races put me in the bow seat of C2, C4, or voyageur canoe, which means I set the stroke rate pace for the crew. My stern paddler utilizes whatever combination of power with rudders, J, sweeps, prys and draws in changing current he/she finds necessary between calls to “hut”. 60 spm seems natural and and comfortable for everyone and indeed necessary to maintain sufficient speed to compete. I assist in turns from the bow with draws, posts and bow rudder as needed. We mainly hold that 60 pace for each 18 hour on-water paddling day during the Y1K race although an occasional strategic sprint of up to 80+ spm may be used for short distances (or sometimes for fun just to break the boredom).
I already do the pitch stroke then, I think. On a straight run, to reduce the number of correction strokes, particular if I have a bowman am trying to stay in cadence, or open water and some wind on the bow to reduce leeway, I angle the blade slightly. Yes, in the direction that would become a J-stroke. Thank you. I never knew it had a name.
New subject: I have been considering the Yukon. Whitehorse to where the pipeline crosses north of Fairbanks. Is their a river guidebook somewhere you would recommend? Any major falls or rapids?
Yes, there are several resources and guides for paddling the Yukon. Mac’s Fireweed Books in Whitehorse or yukonbooks.com will give you the best overall selection, but a general internet and Amazon search will find more. A guidebook by Mike Rourke is one most find useful. Most guides talk of the river between Whitehorse and Dawson, which covers the 440 mile Yukon River Quest race. Beyond Dawson the available reliable resources are practically non-existent. The Y1K ends at the Dalton Highway Bridge, at the pipeline crossing. I literally spent months in map study planning my route before my first race, and subsequent race routes were considerably changed and improved based on what I learned from each previous race. Much of my route planning was done with the help of fairly recent Google Earth imagery. Topo maps of the river (most updates being decades old) are hopelessly outdated because the river changes course and islands and gravel shoals pop up new and disappear every year.
Although the river runs with fast current in most places, there are only two areas of significant rapids to be especially concerned with on the YRQ and Y1K. Five Finger rapids is a good one, with large standing waves guarding one and only one preferred safe passage through. When you do get through the 20 second rush you want to go back and do it again. A number of racers do capsize there each year, but (on the YRQ only, not on the Y1K) there is a safety boat stationed there to assist. A short distance downriver from FFR is Rink Rapids, easily negotiated by hanging far river right. Otherwise there are sections of extremely braided river with multiple islands and channels to choose. Some with plenty of fast current, some with dead water. Choose potential shortcuts wisely.
Five Finger Rapids:
Forgive the obvious non-synchronous appearance of paddles in the photo above, as each paddler is in a different portion of standing waves and it is critical for each to keep their paddle in the water to the maximum extent without necessary regard to stroke synchronization.
Braided river near Circle, AK:
