"Another brand with far better luck."
Mind if I ask, what the other brand/stove was that worked better for your needs. I have had some of the same issues you spoke of with my Whisperlights, but they are also early 80’s vintage. The XKG was always a workhorse, blow torch and pretty reliable, but more stove then what my sons will really need.
Stoves…
Stoves are very personal choices…
I like the Whisperlite international for expeditions where white gas may not be available – it will burn almost anything. If white gas is available I use a Simmerlite. Being able to consolidate fuel is an advantage on expeditions. For “go light” trips close to home I use a Snow Peak Lite Max (titanium) canister stove with an MSR Titan Kettle as my only pot.
For years I used to think that since water “floats the boat” that heavy gear was acceptable, and used stainless pots (often carrying more pots than I needed). In the last few years I have gone more and more ultralight. Even considering the heavy weight of an expedition kayak and a full water load, a lighter load is more fun to paddle and is less hassle to haul around on land. But titanium and similar gear can really put a dent in your wallet!
Greg Stamer
I use the same Snow Peak Greg
Excellent product. As you know Ti is inert in salt water so it’s great for sea paddling.
Optimus Himalayan Multi Fuel
and several butane stoves. The Optimus had a pump issue, but the newer pump has worked great.
msr
MSR pocket rocket is the way to go, I bought that 2 years ago and since then my whisperlight has been collecting dust.
Not sure this is true.
I’ve used butane stoves in very cold conditions minus 20 to 30 Celsius quite successfully, and on very long trips. So I’m not sure why people think there’s no question that butane doesn’t work in cold temps.
My partner and I spent 32 days climbing a couple of routes on Denali back in the eighties and we successfully used butane canisters exclusively on that trip.
I’ve also done two shorter trips to Mt. Logan, again using canisters, and numerous winter trips in the Canadian Rockies, all using canisters.
What is needed is a heat exchanger to keep the canister warm while cooking. And maybe a simple foam jacket to insulate it. You won’t heat up the canister past room temps, so explosion is not an issue.
I think some of the new canisters have a propane/butane mix which is even better in cold temps, and remote canister stoves allow you to safely invert the canister so liquid fuel will flow even when it’s too cold for gas to pressurize enough.
I have used MSRs extensively in cold temps as well. But I think canisters are a little safer, quieter, and easier to use in tents.
The facts.
– Last Updated: Nov-17-09 8:56 PM EST –
Disclaimer: I am not throwing this in anyone's face. I was curious, so I found this on the net:
BEGIN PASTE
"Butane is the safest fuel of the three (butane, isobutane, & propane) because it doesn’t vaporize as easily but they don’t perform very well in cold weather. In the summer, however, a butane stove is a popular choice.
"Propane" Stove In truth, butane fuel is commonly blended with propane and/or isobutane. Both propane and isobutane vaporizes at a lower temperature so they perform better in cold weather.
Isobutane vaporizes at 14 degrees Fahrenheit (-10 degrees Celcius) and butane vaporizes at 31 degrees Fahrenheit (-0.5 degrees Celcius). What this means is that at 14 degrees, isobutane is in vapor form and can be burned while butane at the same temperature is in liquid form which makes it useless.
Propane on the other hand vaporizes at -47 degrees Fahrenheit (-44 degrees Celcius) so propane stoves perform better than the other two in cold temperatures but not the safest in warmer temperatures. Though you might still want to consider a liquid fuel camp stove at high altitudes.
However, pure propane stoves are not very common because propane is so volatile that it may not be safe in the small, thin-walled cartridges. Fuel cartridges are usually a blend of mostly propane and butane. The ideal mix is something that burns hot while maintaining pressure without being too volatile.
Using a camp stove inside a tent is not recommended practice for fear of carbon monoxide poisoning but some mountaineers do it when it’s difficult to fire up the stove outside in harsh weather. This is safer with a cartridge stove because liquid fuel stoves tend to flare up high and can be quite unpredictable.
If you use a propane stove in extremely cold weather, you might have to warm up the stove first by putting it under your armpit or between your thighs before you attempt to fire it up. A common pratice in the morning is to wake up just enough to stuff the stove under your armpit and then going back to sleep. When you wake up, you’ll have a camp stove ready to use."
END PASTE
I typically buy the canisters with the propane/isobutane blend, and they work great. I am never out backpacking/paddling when it's below 14 deg F, but I know that some are. This is worthwhile considering what sort of conditions you will be using the stove in, but I would bet that for 99% of us, the propane/isobutane canister stove like a Jetboil or a MSR Pocket Rocket will do absolutely just fine and they are way easier to use and control the heat (IMHO) than my old Whisperlite.
My vote
Jet boil for temps 60 and above. Jetboil is tolerable at 50. With less air temp, go for the white gas stove. Whisperlite is a nice stove and a lot of my friends bring them on trips. If I’m along, they never use their whisperlite because my Coleman Exponent, unglamorous as it is, has the food cooked by the time they get their stove working.
Then again, these are smart guys. Maybe they just sand-bag with the stoves because they like my cooking.
~~Chip
Over 2 miles long
Burnett Bay beach… I know and if dont believe scale it on the chart.
Altitude
I know it may not be an issue, since this is a paddling forum - but the subject of altitude seems to be glossed over here. If the user wants something for alpine use, the Jetboil or other canister stoves may not be the best choice.
I first started using the Whisperlite (International) because I was spending a lot of time at altitudes around 8-10,000’. And a good deal of that time in cold weather. If you think a canister (or alcohol) stove loses efficiency in the cold or at high altitude, try using one under both conditions. Pretty frustrating. That situation makes the white gas stove way more attractive. Even under those conditions, my Whisperlite never lets me down - heavy and messy as it is.
As with boats, the best setup is to have more than one and then use the one that fits the occasion best. But for someone who will have only one stove, IMO, the best thing to do is pick the stove that will work at the extremes of the user’s expected activities. If the user will not be encountering very cold temps or high elevations, a canister stove is best IMO. If there will be much cold temp and/or high altitude use, the “single stove” user would be better off with white gas.
Just for further clarity, I use my Pocket Rocket the vast majority of the time. But if I’m going out in winter weather or above 6000’, I am more likely to be using the Whisperlite.
Here’s a good article that gives a backpackers view of the issue. The weight-saving aspect may or may not be relevant to paddlers.
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/Backpacking-and-Hiking-documents/stove_comparison.html
I Have
A wisperlite International…but always use my Optimus Nova
I like the way it works better than the Wisperlite Int.
field repairable and it burns anything, under any condition any stove is going to work
Best Wishes
Roy
Canister/cold/altitude
I was talking to one of the gear heads at Neptune Mountaineering about this and asked if he knew of anyone who had used a hand warmer packet under the canister successfully. Yup. It puts out enough heat to keep the fuel warm enough to work in pretty cold temps. Stick a hand warmer (dry chemical type) under the canister and pull an old sock up over it, should work well. I plan on getting up to Eldora Nordic area ( http://www.eldora.com/mountain.stats.html )in a couple of weeks and will try this at about 9500’ and below freezing. Looking forward to a hot noodle cup at the far end of the trail. My stove: Northern Lights Alpha Ti, its hard to find these days, but is kind of like the Pocket Rocket. It weighs about 3oz with spark igniter included. A mighty little stove that will simmer or blast.
Good tip, Taj
Don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work.
something else to think about
Recycleability. Unfortunately cannisters (for cannister stoves) are not recycleable. You’d think they would be a way for people who love the outdoors to recycle them, but no. The cans that white gas comes in, on the other hand, … well, I don’t know about them. But maybe you use less can-per-joule, I don’t know. Another issue to think about, though, if you care about that sort of thing (I do).
If using the Whisperlite International…
…you can just keep refilling the same can.
cannisters are recycleable
– Last Updated: Nov-19-09 10:22 AM EST –
The Jetboil cannisters are recycleable, as are any of the similar typs. You can't recycle them with any fuel remaining - so just take the empty cannister out to the workbench and punch a hole into it anywhere using a hammer and nail - then toss them in with the pork n'bean cans. I think someone markets a little punch device just for this purpose, but can't remember who.
Even the one pound Propane cannisters can be recycled, but not easily. They need to be taken to one of the few places that are set up to drain and capture the remnant fuel - in trash, unless they have been emptied like that, they are considered hazardous material I think.
another comment on a comment above, regarding Jetboil at altitude, I have used my Jetboil at about 9200 ft elevation, on frosty mornings - works fine, though I kept the stove in the tent the night before, wrapped in clothes or whatever to keep the temp up a little bit. It wouldn't be my stove of choice for really cold temps, but Jetboil does have a higher ratio of iso-butane than most other cannisters, for the purpose of using at colder temps. Some people will use a "cozy" around the cannister to help insulate it from the cold (assuming you've kept it in the sleeping bag with you, or otherwise have kept the cannister a bit warm overnight). I assume the efficiency suffers a bit, requiring more fuel to boil water, but any stove would have the same isse.
http://www.jetboil.com/faqs
click on the link and scroll down to get some ansers about cold weather use.
One point in favor of a cannister stove is that you can take them on a plane, as checked baggage, and then buy fuel at your destination. A whitegas stove can't normally be carried on a plane (one exception being a brand new, never used stove)
?
“A whitegas stove can’t normally be carried on a plane (one exception being a brand new, never used stove)”
Link to confirm?
stoven not specifically prohibited,
– Last Updated: Nov-20-09 10:32 AM EST –
Probably should have qualified that a bit; more like its more dificult to bring a liquid fuel stove on a plane than a cannister stove - but fuel is prohibited, and the theory is they don't want any chance of vapor remaining in the stove. Its how the airline interprets the rules mostly. I've been asked many times if I have a stove, when I haven't had one.
I think I did once fly with my Coleman Peak1 - I'd left the cap off the fuel tank for a couple of weeks, but had to talk my way into being allowed to bring it - had to show them the stove. So in part, it depends on the airline check in person - if they aren't sure its allowed, they'd probably disallow it. A typical cannister stove will normally be ok, as there is minimal chance for any fuel vapors to stay in the stove if you keep the valve open.
see the link below for some comments - I'm sure if you just google for bringing a camping stove on a plane, you'd find lots of similar stuff.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/message.jspa?messageID=10180909
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5028798_tsa-requirements-camp-stoves.html
Not had that problem
I’ve carried my MSR Wisp. Int. in checked baggage with no problems. Fuel bottles must be empty.
MSR Simmerlite
Hello,
My vote is for the MSR Simmerlite. I have the Whisperlite and Simmerlite. The Simmerlite is smaller and is a fully adjustable white gas stove which I have really enjoyed. Basically I would say it has a low, med, and high setting. It doesn’t adjust like the Dragonfly, but certainly much better than the Whisperlite. However, if your friend doesn’t need this feature for lower heat cooking, you already know that you can’t go wrong with the Whisperlite for a dependable, simple, durable stove. I take both along because the pumps are close enough to be interchangeable if one of them breaks, and both are light to carry.