Kayak Building Questions

Luan
Do a search to get more info on luan for S&G kayaks. I remember reading a lot of negative comments on that application. Sounded like it was difficult to work with.



A good resource for kayak building info is www.kayakforum.com–go to the link for building.

depends
I paddled a “Putz Walrus” made in luan covered in 6oz glass. It worked fine. I know another fellow who’s built a few kayaks from plans with Luann. The thing is to make sure there aren’t any voids. If the construction technique doens’t involve too much bending/twisting then it can work. I wouldn’t use it mostly because i’m lazy and the alternatives are significantly nicer to work with.

There’s a range of types of Okume ply that is better than others,it’s wonderful stuff to work with compared to Luann.

The strong recomendation not to use Luann comes from a couple perspectives,one if you’re buying new epoxy/glass for that construction then it’s a minor savings in the big picture once the kayak is done and finished. The other perspective is for two panel hulls like the CLC Yare/Seven that will blow apart half the time using good okoume during the construction Luann makes it even harder.

Okoume is the absolute best for consistant work and a light hull. You can’t bend luan too tight or it’ll crack so for making bent decks or kayaks with pre-glued sheerclamps where the ends are under more tension during the stitching/spreading than s&g that’s not made by bending a sheerclamp then the good Okoume is wonderful.

agreed
A LOT depends on the plans. I’m a big advocate of going cheap and easy on your first one.



Use Home Depot plywood and finish it with inexpensive porch paint on a simple design and you’ll get results you’ll be proud of for years.



Not as much price range with epoxy. RAKA is a great value.



After you’ve built and paddled that first one, then go after the more advanced plans using more expensive materials.



Lots of sites claim their plans can be built by first time builders. This is true. But the end result for a beginner vs. an experienced builder is much different.



Your first boat will be a little heavy, maybe even a little crooked. But it’s something you built with your own hands.



The next one you build will be a big leap in the quality. And chances are their will be a next one after that. Building them is addictive as hell!



Go cheap and simple at first.


pre-glassing bottom panels
I’m finishing up a Merganser 18 and starting a 17W,gotta tell you that pre-glassing the interior of the hull panels sure is a lot easier than doing it after it’s stitched up…I like the RAKA 350/epoxy,cures up fine in cold weather. Still figuring out how to make the 3.25oz tightweave glass work but it’s neat stuff.

Arctic Hawk / CLC
Hello,



You seem to know a lot about CLC and their Kayaks.

I just purchased an Arctic Hawk from CLC. It was designed by Mark Rogers of Superior Kayaks, manual/instructions are by Mark Rogers (superior kayaks - 457 pages). Any thoughts on this kayak before I get started building it or how it will handle? New to this sport. I have Never even been in a kayak yet, but thats OK I’ll master it. Just like learning to Fly! Like flying looks like Safety Safety Safety always.

finish quality
I think I just got lucky on the finish quality. I try to make sure I’ve done a good job sanding and cleaning the hull before I start putting on the finish. On the Cirrus I mopped the floor a couple of times first, vacuumed all of the overhead stuff that had collected wood and epoxy dust, then put an air purifier in the room for a few hours before I started. I sanded the boat to a finer grit than I normally do. I always do a light sanding between coats. Not a lot, but enough to knock the dust nibs down. I normally wipe down with a rag wetted with denatured alcohol between coats. This time I followed that with one of the Swiffer wipes that are used for dusting. I was surprised at how much additional stuff the Swiffer picked up. I’ve been lucky enough to choose varnish and paint that went on easily, leveled itself well, and looked pretty good when it cured.

I post new pics as I make progress
It’s my first boat building project however, so I can’t promiss that I’m doing it right.



If you want to see pics of any specific details let me know, I’d be glad to post or e-mail them.

it’s cool
to my mind the kits are like a vacation/adventure. The construction experience is an adventure before even getting to the water, with the actual kayak a secondary priority. Building a Chesapeake is like a three star hotel in an ok location. Building the A.Hawk is like a cruise ship ending up in a 5star resort. The Arctic Hawk is a good design and there are better for my taste,it’s definately a notch above the Chesapeake but the manual is what sets it aside just from a perfectionists standpoint. Following Rogers direction will get you to a perfectly finished kayak. When Jay at CLC was building the A.hawk we marveled/laughed at the details,but the dedication to detail is exactly what a lot of CLC customers were already doing,which was a level of detail a few levels beyond what brought A clc kayak to market. The introduction of the A.Hawk has done more to educate CLC about kayaks than any feedback from customers.

It may take you awhile but after you’re done and thinking of building another check out Eric Schades Mergansers for a fast build. Functionally it’s in the same ball park as the Hawk while the simplicity of construction is more than a Chesapeake or Pygmy.

Thanks, lee
I’m looking forward to learning to build, and learning to Kayak. I picked the Kit (Arctic Hawk) from CLC in Annapolis. I asked about the manual (I didn’t see it - inside carton with the wood) they said it was VERY long and that their

manuals are only about 150 -170 pages vs 457 pages by Mark - Superior Kayaks. They said it was mostly overkill. I could/should skip alot if I feel like I know what I’m doing. I’ll do it as Mark designed it! One problem with the Manual Vs the kit is that the manual instructions use MED Cure Exopy. The Kit from CLC came with Slow Cure. Thanks Lee

Not sure if Lee is talkin bout me
but I’ve done one S&G in Okume and 3 in some form of Lowe’s plywood. The first two are an oak ply that when finished bright have a really wild grain to them. The last one, I knew I was going to paint (cause I hadn’t yet) and just used poplar luan. After 5 years the first two oak boats are still going strong. On the poplar luan I am getting a little separation of the outside layer of the ply where my knees hit. This was built to be my greenland rolling boat so I assume the pressure of my knees caused some delamination. I added some glass underneath and figure one day I will re-deck the boat anyway to add an extra inch to the height. At that time I’ll put a second layer of ply underneath to absorb some pressure.



The only two concerns with luan (IMHO) are they are a little harder to work with so be careful handling the panels after you cut them, they can snap when you aren’t even trying.



Second I advocate glass on all interior surfaces, even behind bulkheads. A seal coat may keep out the moisture, but I like the security of the saturated glass layer to keep out any moisture.

Have fun.

Randy

med/slow cure
that isn’t a problem,if you’re working at 60degrees it’ll be worthwhile getting a pint of fast hardener to speed on non-laminating processes,ie. general glueing/joinery.

Thanks, you did an awesome job!

glassing all panels
even a light layer of glass works keeping the black ick away. The A.Hawk kit has 2oz glass everywhere in conjuction with 4oz in other places,that must be a bear to work with but the general idea is that even on non-loadbearing areas if you have some glass in the seal coat it’ll prevent microcracks in the epoxy from allowing water to steam into the wood when compartments are closed.

re-read it.
I re-read the review,I figured out what the problem is with his review. His characterization of who buys kayak kits is all wrong. He actually gives the impression that it was work to put up with all the suggestions from customers on how the construction process or final product could be improved. The assumption being that improvement isn’t necessary. Which is understandable if you never paddled beyond shelted water or practiced rescues. The original Cape Charles/Chesapeak with unglassed decks with marginal hatch stiffeners was guranteed to have the aft deck break in rough water rescue practice with the size of paddler the kayak was designed for. The original CapeCharles manual was about five pages of instruction if you excluded the instructions for plan builders ,the Chesapeake manual was about 7 pages if you followed just the kit building part, minus the s&g manual(general info on epoxy/tools/wood/design). About 1/10 customers were sending helpful hints for the manual because it was marginal,and inconsistant, or as one customer said "this manual is for s**t. That’s why the Cheapeake manual was re-done, the original manual was substandard to what else was out there.

The other assumption that’s incorrect is his characterization of Moores book as pretty but unnecessary because kit builder really just want to get to the water as fast as possible with their new wood kayak. For the $1000 a kit and materials will cost plus the 150hr construction time (finishing included) the kit builder is looking to build and spend time/money for the effort. For $1000 you could get a Perception Sonoma 13 and be on the water in no time with something that would handle waves/wind better than a Chesapeake 16.