It sounds like you're saying "I want a more stable boat but I don't want a wider boat." Basic physics says that that's not going to happen. To be as stable as an average paddler in an average boat, you will need something wider.
You're right in that most high-performance boats are made for an "average" paddler. Choices are more limited for people at the ends of the size range -- just ask a serious paddler who's 5' and 100 lbs. But there are big boats out there that aren't barges. The Tempest 180, Capella 173, Nighthawk 17.5, Aquanaut HV, Prijon Kodiak, Neck Looksha V, etc. will carry a big guy with stability proportional to their smaller siblings. How many have you tried?
If you have to outfit the cockpit to fit your lower body, that's not a big deal. Small paddlers do it all the time to fit in hulls they like.
There are also kit- and plans-built options. A One Ocean kayaks Cape Ann HV would probably outperform most commercial kayaks of any size. A Shearwater Merganser 17W or 18W would go together fast. The big Pygmys are suprisingly fast and stable.
You don't have the same choices that an "average" paddler would, but you do have choices.
nope My sense is he’s saying: I want more stable but I still want responsive. Those aren’t mutually exclusive, it’s a function of hull shape and not just linear dimensions.
True Most of the bigger/beamier sea kayaks are designed for expedition-type paddling, not day/play. If he’s looking for Romany/Avocet/Pintail style handling in a boat for 250-pounders, there aren’t a lot of choices.
Nighthawk 17.5 Has anyone proposed a Nighthawk yet? I used to paddle one and found it unbelievably responsive–surprisingly responsive–for such a big boat. Stable as all be, too. tphilo should demo one, check it out.
They are known to be able to carry weight and be manuverable, but I can't comment on where they stand on the center of gravity issue. The Gulfstream is CD's version of the Orion and although the Orion isn't listed in their web site any longer, a while back I was told that they still can be ordered. They are both a Swede form design, but don't know how that plays out in the equation.
Awesome thread, much much learning here for all of us…and my 0.02 is this…
I think many good points were made…like removing the seat completely for now and seeing the result until you find a larger boat, but I would suggest you find the next sea kayak symposium and hook up with the Greenland crowed esp. if Tuner and Perry are there solely to get into the pre-kayaking stretch routine. I got hooked on it 3 years? ago at Sweetwater and have been doing stretches daily now-it helps everything, even walking to the mailbox, hiking, biking, rolling, and SEX.
Oh, if you add some balast why not make it a Camelbak bladder (or whatever) and have the hydration thing going on too
nowhere in the original post is mentioned of performance attributes other than "stability." He wants to paddle a low volume boat that he doesn't quite have the skills and confidence for yet. Instead of a moving up to another boat in size, getting the stability while developing skills and confidence to perhaps move back down later, he much rather attribute it to a "design" issue.
I am on the same page with Eric on this. His size is not extraordinary. I've seem plenty of big guys paddling much tippier boats in conditions. They have progressed to that level of skill and comfort. He hasn't. Where one is where one is. It can tough it out, or move to a slightly larger boat and continue to learn. Either way, it is a progressive skills issue and not a kayak design issue.
Disconnect "I’ve got a decent roll and braces and have begun some surfing classes…My high center of gravity makes it impossible to have any sense of comfort or confidence in conditions beyond 2" of chop."
It sounds like he’s making good progress on skills, which makes it odd that 2" of chop still throws him. Of course, worrying about capsizing tends get you into a vicious circle of tension, rigidity, instability, and capsize, but learning to roll helps most folks break out of that.
Without knowing more, it sounds like moving to a more stable boat to build confidence might help.
Very flat bottom with a lot of initial stability. Certainly meant to carry your weight. I would give one a try in your search.
240 - 6.3. You’re not that big. You’re a larger guy but not out of the range of most expedition boats. I would paddle with some good paddlers and see if they can help you with your skills a bit. You might feel better in another boat but a few tweaks on your bracing and sculling skills might help too.
Explorer I’m not far off your height and weight and have paddled an Explorer HV for about five years. “Paddle the tippyness out of it” worked…
I’m currently looking to add a Pintail with keyhole cockpit (I know, sacrilege…) but it fits me pretty well. A newer Nordkapp (glass, not LV) would work pretty well as would a Romany HV. The Avocet and plastic Nordkapp are a little tight for me. Any of these boats will probably feel twitchy at the beginning but you will grow into them. I’d put the Nordkapp and Pintail at the most difficult of this group.
thanks Thanks to EVERYONE for their input. In case you’re wondering, I am going to get a bigger boat. Right now I’m focusing on a capella 173 or a Tempest 180. From what I’ve been able to find out, either of these boats damn well ought to work for me, as long as I do my part. My part is to get in better shape, become more flexible and hopefully more relaxed. From then on, I’ll just keep trying to paddle the tippiness out of it. btw, I came across an interesting website devoted to the larger paddler. It’s too bad it hasn’t been kept current, but it likely would prove valuable to other clydesdales trying to figure out how to advance in a sport of thoroughbred boats and athletes.
why “tough it out”? for a small light paddler there’s more primary stability in the “average” kayak and for a top heavy paddler there’s less. Why should one “tough is out”?
then what are the choices? Some amelioration if he goes with adding on ballast, lowering seat. But plenty of "British performance boats" out there that would provide him the desired stability. Again, it's not a "design" issue at play here.
My brother took me on a Puget Sound trip 2 years ago and then on a short trip on swells in an ocean shores bay.
I was paddling a 17’ easy rider Seahawk with the seat removed. I didn’t tip over once on the two journeys.
I’m overweight by 23lbs, and I’m sure that I wouldn’t fit in the smaller keyhole cockpits of other boats. That’s why I’ve purchased a Pygmy Queen Charlotte XL kit!
I’ve also been looking at the Easy Rider Eskimo 18’6" kayak. I found one used with the sail for $900, but missed it by 3 hours!
If you find a Tempest 180 too tender, take up golf. No offense meant, but I’ve seen this before…kayaking is NOT for everyone. Good luck. I think you simply need another boat, and you will be a happy guy.
There are boats that are just more stable. The CD Gulfstream and the Solstice are nice boats, and build for larger paddlers, and they seem to work really well. I have a 6'4" frind who loves my Gulfstream. These boats are a little wider, and are very comfortable. And, the Gulfstream (or Siroco - plastic version) is a great rough water boat. Try these out for yourself. The P&H boats you are talking about are not the most stable boats around. Also, the Feathercraft folding kayaks have a lot of stability.
