My experience in 32 degree water
A 3 mm Farmer John with a 2 mm jacket, booties, gloves and hood kept me for about 10 minutes before I felt in danger.
Ummm, yes really
First off, I dispute those prices when talking quality wetsuits (my Hyperflex AMP 5/4/3 winter suit cost $300) but let’s go with your numbers:
280 for two wetsuits today
280 replacement in 4 years
280 replacement fours years later
That’s $840 for wetsuits over eight years not including the inevitable price increases for the next two replacement purchases. Buy a $900 drysuit today and it will still be working in twelve years. And every single time you use it you will be more comfortable than than if you were in a wetsuit.
Again, if you are planing on paddling wet (white water or surf, then a wet suit can work great. If you are paddling dry and need thermal protection then a drysuit beats a wetsuit in all possible ways including cost.
twelve years is pretty optimistic
– Last Updated: Aug-15-14 11:22 AM EST –
Especially if you use it regularly. Which you seem to be assuming regarding the wetsuits. Then there is the drytop/wetsuit combo. And seadart is right about 4/3 prices from those brands because i've seen them, not sure where you shop but you might want to look around a bit more.
So many other variables that your simple answer doesn't account for.
BTW - I almost never stay dry when paddling and think that's a bit of an unrealistic expectation. That includes wearing my drysuit because no fabric on earth can keep me dry and adequately vent the sweat from exertion. If we knew we'd stay dry we could all just paddle in street clothes.
wow
QUOTE “A 3 mm Farmer John with a 2 mm jacket, booties, gloves and hood kept me for about 10 minutes before I felt in danger.”
NOT me for sure. 32F is super cold for me and I live in Buffalo NY. At 32F I would start hyper ventilating if I went in with just a wet suit with a 2mm jacket. I was really layered up in my drysuit when I paddled this year at 32F water temp.
Just last night I was on lake Ontario and it dropped to about 57F (lake flipped) and I wore my drysuit. In fairly large waves, got dumped in the break but rolled up. I wasn’t even going to go wet suit at that temp. Probably could have though. BUT 32F no way. To each there own I guess.
on second drysuit
I question the though that a dry suit would last forever, or even a long time.
I am on my second drysuit in less than 10 years. The first was a close out Palm brand, which got me 3-4 years. Now I am on a Kokatat Goretex. It is on its third neck gasket (at $50 per gasket to have someone replace). This latest one I just sent it back to Kokatat to put on, and at the same time to pressure test and patch (and they did find leaks they patched) - with shipping that was $100.
Except if it rips
32 F fresh H20 is usually solid.
Unless super cooled that is.
another vote for Exel wetsuits
– Last Updated: Aug-16-14 8:48 AM EST –
I've got 3 wetsuits plus some hyroskin pieces and the Exel full length surfing 3/4 is by far the most flexible and comfortable of the lot. As to cost, if you sre not squeamish, pre-owned wetsuits are common and cheap on Ebay. I got the Excel for under $25 and it looked brand new when it arrived. There are a lot of people who get stoked for surfing/diving/paddle sports, go out and buy all the gear, then actually try the sport and get the snot kicked out of them or have a scare and the stuff ends up on CL or Ebay. I think I profit from the "game girlfriend" phenomenon -- many guys will try to entice a new GF into joining them on adventure sports by buying them the gear only to find she really isn 't into it. ( yes, it happens in the reverse case, too -- I'll be surprised if my ex ever uses all the nice touring gear I got him again without me to drag him out on the waters). Got my Kokatat Goretex drysuit for $400 used as well.
another comment on Exel
– Last Updated: Aug-16-14 9:01 AM EST –
One difficulty in buying wetsuits on eBay is fit. I have found many common brands of wetsuits seem to be sized for anorexic teenagers (Oneill and Roxy are really bad that way, Warmers, Camaro and NRS are better). But at least in female sizing, Exel suits are made for the adult body and true to size, even a bit generous. While in most brands I have to size up one to three sizes for fit, in Exel I can go down a marked size and not feel like I'm being stuffed like sausage filling.
eBay for Drysuits
I just got a new-with-tags NRS drysuit for $200 on eBay as the highest bidder. New from a store it was $650 so I was willing to pay even more but was happy to get it for $200. I know the NRS immersion suits aren’t as good as Kokotat but this will do for now for what I need it for. I agree with all the others saying dry suit - not wet.
not if it’s moving
In the end you’ll probably end up going
– Last Updated: Aug-18-14 9:04 PM EST –
the drysuit route. It looks to me like your trying to extend your paddling season. Its cheaper to go with a wetsuit but ultimately the drysuit and layering pile or fleece will be more effective. I noticed that you are paddling rivers. One of my tricks in the winter (in WV) is to paddle smaller volume streams where the bank is nearby and the streams are often shallow. This limits my exposure time in the water if I do swim. I wear a wetsuit during the shoulder months- Sept. Oct, April, and May, but in Nov. Dec, Jan. Feb. March I'm in a semidry or drysuit.
I spend as much or more money on winter clothing than I do on boats. Its very important to keep the head covered as well. Good booties sure are nice and you'll be amazed as to how warm pogies are on the hands.
Last winter even the ww rivers froze up- New, Gauley, Bluestone. We found some open water in Hinton on the New below bluestone dam. I looked and felt like the Michelan Man- because I wore the wetsuit under the drysuit. A swim would have been challenging because of ice shelving along the banks so I dressed for an extend swim. But my mobility to paddle was definately impaired and I kept dumping helmet's full of river water on my head to stay cool enough to paddle.
ww paddlers generally use 2mm suits and the farm john style for mobility and while you can survive swims in the Fall that way I would not suggest it for true winter paddling.
Sales Reps need to be outed.
There are employees of paddling stores that post all the time about having to have high end equipment, these people are sales representatives of equipment manufacturers.
10 degrees C = 50 degrees F
3mm neoprene is not adequate for 50-deg. water, in my experience.
I do keep and use a 3mm fullsuit but only for roll practice in water over 60 degrees OR for paddling in colder but calm water with very little chance of capsizing. It’s definitely pushing the limit for the latter…but I can roll. In higher-risk water, I use either a 2nd layer of neoprene or a drysuit with insulating underlayers. I just ordered a 5/4mm fullsuit with integral hood for winter use.
Drysuits are nice because you can remove them and just drive home in the underlayers, and because the insulation can be increased or decreased. But my poor neck can’t take the gasket chafing for more than a day at a time. I also don’t like the bagginess when I’m in the water.
Make a fairer comparison
Factor in gasket replacements and insulating layers plus the $900 for a basic Gore-tex drysuit, THEN compare with two good wetsuits (one for cold water, one for cool water). You cannot ignore the price of the gaskets and layers, because not everybody owns appropriate underlayers.
I’m not sure you even can make a fair comparison, since how beat up the clothing gets depends on where you go and how often you paddle.
Pores? You have it wrong
– Last Updated: Aug-19-14 6:01 PM EST –
Neoprene is closed-cell foam. What can make you feel cold in a wet wetsuit is the fabric outer face contacted by wind--I found this out when using a smooth-skin (triathlon) wetsuit after using the regular fabric kind many times. A smooth outer skin totally blocks such cooling. Unfortunately, it's prone to abrasion AND it sticks to minicell seats, thigh braces, and hard (fiberglass) seats.
My first one lasted 7 years
My first drysuit, a Stohlquist Gore-tex model (before they stopped making those) lasted 7 years, and I had to replace the neck gasket once during that time. It also needed a tear patched up, and the suit was retired due to multiple tiny leaks along the seam tape plus abrasion at the waist elastic right down to the Gore membrane.
Basically, the reasons to choose drysuit or wetsuit have more to do with other factors than just cost. If someone wants a drysuit but can’t afford a Gore-tex suit, they have the option of buying a non-Gore-tex drysuit. They’ll be really clammy in either that or a wetsuit. But the clammy wetsuit will feel less icky than soaked underlayers.