Oh ye Sacred Cows, I bow down to you
I was surprised when I met pnet administrators at a paddle sports show once. They seemed like perfectly decent people. How did they manage to let this forum degrade into such a cesspool? It resembles a Craigslist forum of DSM-IV codifiable misfits with an anger problem. There are more special interests here than in Washington, and they have zero tolerance for opinions that don’t agree with their own. Do not even think of not kowtowing to the sacred cows here.
What??? You want to buy a kayak somewhere that’s not within 10 miles of your home? You think saving $200 justifies running your local dealer into bankruptcy? You think REI is not the evil twin of Walmart? You dare to claim that one manufacturer uses thinner plastic than another? And that a kayak that you owned is not suited to certain conditions? Outrageous!!! You need to shape up and fly right, Bud.
If you bow down low enough and keep your opinions to yourself, you may be considered for membership in the pnet exclusive club of:
–People who can afford kayaks that are worth way more than your current car and who do not need to price shop
–Kayak dealers
–Manufacturer’s reps
–Disgruntled former kayak dealers who couldn’t compete and closed down
–Friends and associates of all of the above, plus friends of kayak designers
–Women who are overdosing on their testosterone supplements
–Consequently, men who now have to fight twice as hard to stay a step ahead of the women in the aggression department
If I ever come back to this forum it will only be because it helps grow hair on my chest.
who, me?
I appreciate the thought that went into that, but I don’t think you meant to respond to me. I’m with you on this.
bingo
oh brother
The firm I work for is rarely the low on a proposal. So why do we keep getting all this work?
Enjoy your used p&h that someone else thought was worth a little extra over a Dick’s special.
More revolutions by the left
You are right about that. Communism killed a hundred million people in the 20th C.
Dogmaticus
Price isn’t every thing and yet those
morons at Wal-Mart keep bragging about lower prices? How they stay in business is a wonder!!!
Revolutions
My point is to simply point out that the perception by the modern day right wing in this country that the left is a bunch of pacifists would be erroneous, not to justify the slaughters perpetrated by Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin or others.
Few on the right would ever think the
left were anything but pacific. Too much experience with Hitler, Mussolini, Beider Meinhof, Red Brigades, Sandinistas, Chavez, Castro, etc. Not a lot of calm seas in that lot. The left has a lot of atonement to do before it casts polital violence before the right’s feet.
Dogmaticus
after rereading
This topic, there seems to be only one poster who has lowered the level of discourse to name calling.
Ryan L.
yup
I only detect one person here who seems to have his knickers in a twist. Methinks he doth protest too much. (didn't I mention the perils of "indignation"?)
Over the years I've participated in many forums covering professional and recreational topics, and with very rare exceptions, Pnet's is the most inclusive, tolerant and civilized, by far.
If anyone doesn't believe me, try flinging poo over at the QajaqUSA boards. You'd be beaten to a pulp with handcarved GP's and your bodily fluids used for SOF skin dope.
Waterbird
A “cesspool”?
Really, I think you should take a deep breath and chill. Your tirade was really uncalled for. If you go back to my 5/25 2:09 post I stated that your response to the rude dealer was “only natural” and admitted I’ve had the same reaction. I empathized, did I not? (clearly my estrogen is intact.)
If you had not deleted your main portion of the thread you could go back and see that you provoked a good bit of the retorts that are so upsetting to you with your own sarcasm and testiness. Heated debates can be useful (we are all opinionated and both correct and incorrect to some degree) but walking out and then coming back to broadly flame everyone is non-constructive and childish. Note I did not say YOU were childish, just that your post was (there IS a difference.)
Agreeing to disagree is a necessity on threads like this – if you can’t help but take discursive challenges as personal insults, perhaps you need to rethink participating.
We don’t want you to go away – be a little more patient and you’ll find this to be a useful (and broadly inclusive) resource for paddling info and camaraderie.
nah…
…not you. Just misplaced the post on the “tree”.
other factors re Walmart
Walmart’s “success” is also due to having driven their smaller scale competitors out of business in rural and small town areas where there are now no other options. I have family across the mid West who have few other choices now for groceries and dry goods. In fact, a number of them who at first were thrilled to have a Walmart nearby 20 years ago, now complain about the poor selection and even the pricing, as well as the abandoned businesses that blight their “downtown” areas. (I bite my tongue, since I warned them that abandoning the community based stores they had relied on for generations would degrade the community.) In the small mountain town nearest my boyfriends home in north central PA, where he has lived most of his life, there used to be 9 grocers. Now there is one other chain food store 25 minutes away and a Walmart 8 minutes away.
Any really savvy consumer who does due diligence will discover that Walmart’s “bargains” are not really so in many cases. They contract with major manufacturers to manufacturer and package products just for them that are cheaper or have smaller portions. One of uncles was defending his shopping there by saying since he was on a fixed income he couldn’t “afford” treats like his package of Oreos but for Walmart’s lower pricing. I happened to have a package of Oreos in my car we had bought at a small town grocer during our drive to visit him. We compared the two packages, which looked at first glance to be the same. His Walmart Oreos were 10.5 ounces for $2.77. Mine were 14 ounces for $3.29. So he paid over 26 cents per ounce for his cookies and I paid 23.5 cents. I learned later that he went through his cupboard and marked down weights and quantities of food items he had bought there and then took a trip to another chain in an adjacent town and did similar comparisions. Now he drives once a month to a neighboring city and stocks up at Weigmanns, Aldi and Trader Joe’s and figures he saves enough to justify the few gallons of gas.
Same with items like Fruit of the Loom underwear. The ones shipped to Walmart are flimsier than the stock product. I bought a package myself one weekend last year when I realized I had forgotten to pack extras. These were, per the package, the identical model of which I have several pairs already, bought elsewhere. The 3 pairs from Walmart practically disintegrated after just a few months of washing and wearing. The fabric was so flimsy just the action of the waist elastic stretching wore holes in it.
When I first moved to Michigan in the mid 90’s Walmart was still a burgeoning phenomenon – I admit I shopped there for a couple of years and got some items that were decent quality (dry goods, clothing, hardware.) But now that I am exposed to their stock again when I am visiting up north (and they are the only game in town for items like that) I can’t help but notice how cheesy the selections are, compared to when they were first opening stores. Why is this? Because they no longer have competition. Duh.
Walmart, and it’s philosophy of “price trumps quality and business ethics” (or, as PT Barnum put it: “There’s a sucker born every minute”) will prevail as long as people in rural and small town America have few or no other options, and as long as people are too lazy or ignorant to actually look closely at what they are getting for their hard-earned dollars.
And to get back to the topic at hand – Dick’s Sporting goods does the same thing, forcing manufacturers to meet a fixed price point by cheapening their products for them. A Mad River “Passage 14” canoe may look just like a Mad River “Adventure 14”, but the plastic is lower grade and the fit and fittings are cheaper.
Bow down? Not me.
I paddle a canoe kneeling with a bent shaft paddle and use in-water recovery control strokes as well as kneel & switch.
I paddle a canoe sitting with a bent shaft paddle and use in-water recovery control strokes, as well as sit & switch.
I paddle a Mad River Monarch and Sawyer Loon without using the rudder for exercise paddles because I like using heeling, edging and fore & aft weight shifts in addition to paddle strokes for boat control just because I think it’s fun.
I use a 17’ sea kayak for day paddling in land locked central IL.
I bought an ugly beat up canoe and left it ugly and beat up because that way I don’t care if I scratch it up more.
I have fallen in with those who gain greater pleasure from the use of lighter, better fitting and better handling boats and gear, Just because they greatly enhance my paddling pleasure. I did resist for several years.
I always look for the best bargain, but I always give local vendors the first chance.
Sometimes I buy local even if it’s not the best rock bottom price, because it feels good and I want to retain local options.
Happy paddling.
I’m feeling the love!
Keep it coming. Especially Willowleaf—we’re paying you by the word.
Very well written.
Must’ve taken a while, or you’re just very good at written communications.
Thanks!
I’ll send you my PayPal account link so you can pay up.
Fascists are not "left wing"
Fascists and ultra Nationalists are, by definition, extreme right wing and not left wing, as they seek to maintain and reinforce the status quo (even by force) and concentrate on the establishment of an “elite” privileged class by racial, religious or economic parameters.
Traditionally, the Left includes progressives, social liberals, greens, social democrats, socialists, communists, and anarchists. The Right includes conservatives, reactionaries, capitalists, monarchists, nationalists, and fascists. Extremists at both ends of the spectrum have been responsible for the most egregious oppression and mass murders. Classic liberalism and conservatism are both toward the moderate middle of the spectrum and rarely provoke holocausts.
If you’re going to argue politics, at least get your categories straight.
“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
(Philosopher and Poet, George Santayana)
thanks
all were quickly typed “stream of consciousness”. Yup, admit I am pretty good at written communication. Have to be in my business as I am too small to be physically intimidating.
advice from an old sage (not me)
Willowleaf,
I’ve always enjoyed reading your many nuanced posts and have even learned from them at times. I have a suggestion of sage advice that helps maintain lower blood pressure;
“Avoid getting in a pissing contest with a skunk”
I foolishly allowed myself to rise to the bait a few weeks ago and have been carefully restraining myself since.
Dave