have done similar before crossing trips
I’ve often done a couple 35 miler coastal paddles before doing a 22 mile crossing just to know I have the reserve especially if I have to tow someone else. 40 or so miles done a number of times to prep for a 30 mile crossing could be fine assuming one is very careful about the weather on trip day and aborts sooner than later.
Of course all this assumes all the other key points already discussed are covered. Best bet is always to find a highly skilled mentor and then enjoy the learning process.
What have you done so far?
Just some thoughts that I didn’t work on for too long:
I can paddle 8 miles at about 4.5 MPH. The last time I paddled further, 16 miles, I paddled at about 4 MPH. Knowing how I feel after paddling 8, 13, 16 miles, I would say that I would have no business paddling 30 miles in a day. I could certainly not paddle it at my typical pace without falling over dead at some point.
All I’m getting at is that you can plan all you want but you need to get in some time in the seat of your kayak over large-ish distances and then use that to predict your performance in your crossing.
I’m not young so I don’t plan on being indestructible. You could plan on being indestructible but it’s still a good idea to paddle some shoreline, out and back, further and further each trip, to see what you are capable of paddling and how you feel about it 20 miles into a 30 mile trip.
If you can paddle the distance and then some, I’d say go for it. It should be a great trip. Being alone away from shore is a great feeling.
Dave
I would do something like this
Here are some of the things I think you should do before you can realistically consider doing this trip:
•Find a local paddling shop/school with ACA or BCU certified instructors
•Buy a sea kayak and all the necessary paddling gear, including but not limited to:
-two quality paddles
-quality life jacket
-tow belt
-deck compass
-paddle float
-pump
-several dry bags
-quality hand held marine vhf radio
-waterproof GPS
-drysuit
•Find a friend who will do the same
•Take classes from the school, covering subjects including, but not limited to: Strokes, Rescues, Towing, Navigation, Incident Management, Rolling.
•Paddle as much as possible in a variety of water and weather conditions
•Learn and “perfect” a roll
•Paddle in surf, in my opinion the quickest way to learn paddling skills, plus it’s a boatload of fun
This will be expensive, anywhere from two to five thousand dollars depending on what you can find in the way of used gear and deals. As mentioned, it will take some time. Plan on taking at least two seasons/years to build your skills and experience. If you do this, chances are, like most of us here, you will have a great time enjoying the journey. Your goal will still be there but you’ll find just getting out to play with like minded people will be the read reward. As far as crossing Erie, as you go through this process you will know when you are ready.
Length of trip versus distance paddled
I think you’ve gotten some really great advice so far. I’d include one thing in your training which was intended by those who provided it but not specifically mentioned. When you do your near-shore training for distance, do NOT stop, ever, even when the training distance is greater than that of your planned crossing (gotta be fully prepared for things to take longer than planned). The difference between paddling 30 miles with breaks and without breaks is incredibly huge. Though I haven’t compared the two since I have no need to go that far without stopping, I DO know that when it’s a long distance between rest stops, things become more and more difficult as time goes by, yet after a short rest stop everything is easy once again. You won’t be able to take rest stops on your trip, so train without them. Sure, you can stop paddling, but you’ll still be stuck in the boat, and that’s a fairly large component of the overall fatigue factor.
take a few seasons to build up.
30 miles is a very doable distance in a sea kayak. I’ve done 40 miles in under 8 hrs. Start with the basics: strokes, rescues, rolls, forward stroke refinement, endurance, navigation, night navigation, rough water techniques. Then get experience with all the above. Along the way, if you push yourself, you will have a few ‘oh $hit’ moments. With the right group and the right knowledge and training, these will be learning moments not episodes of ‘I shouldn’t be alive’.
nonstop paddling.
I agree w. nonstop paddling as training.
A few of us were gearing up in February to do a 27 mile adventure paddle of lakes and rivers in April (40 degree water, 40 degree air). Seakayaks, drysuits, and full gear and safety gear.
We did six weekends of paddling 10, then 12, then 15 miles with zero breaks of any kind -paddles always moving. We figured if we could do that, we could make the break points at 8, 14 and 20 miles in course.
And we could. We could break, or take a 30 minute lunch and have plenty in the tank… which was good because the weather worsened, the waves went up and we went into the wind at the end. No one plans on it. It just happens.
It’s not realistic to assume a constant speed in open water. Fatigue, dehydration, wind, water and even digestion can alter the pace considerably, no matter what age the paddler. You need margins. You need conditioning.
Make sure the boat is perfectly outfitted to body. I’ve seen ppl more athletic than me throw in the towel sooner cuz their legs or feet were asleep. Or they couldn’t spend more than 3 hours in their boat due to back or buttock pain.
Technique too is key. Arm paddlers who can blow past ppl at shorter distances usually are fatiguing faster at double digit miles.
Getting all this under your belt is a lot. No quick and easy alternatives though. Great adventures are like that. If everyone could do them -they would. But they wouldn’t be the same kind of adventure.
Nervous Nellies Here …
I don’t think you need to spend years getting ready to paddle across Lake Erie on a good day, with fair weather forecast. You do need to know what safety equipment to have, how to rescue yourself, how to call for help, and you need enough stamina to paddle back to shore in high winds and rough seas. The last part takes some training and practice. I would look for some other people who want to do the trip with you and someone who might have a spotter boat or two different people at both ends of your intended route. Most of the people who post here have never gone more than a half mile off shore nor paddled over ten miles, and the average age is approaching 60, so take the advice to get some experience, choose your weather day carefully and make sure you have some back up with some one in a boat and hopefully others to do the crossing with. One warning long crossings on flat water are EXTREMELY BORING, on the other hand long crossings in high winds and waves can be a bit scary, but something you will remember.
think assumption is it can get bad fast
Our So Cal crossings to Catalina are very predictable and if the forecast says good then it’s generally good. I hear it can change much faster on Lake Erie. That said, I just checked a couple of buoys in mid lake and today wouldn’t be too bad (up to 12kts and less than 2’ waves) a day to be crossing and would mostly just be a long paddle.
I used to live in the Midwest
I have a lot of respect for the Great Lakes, but the weather is fairly predictable depending on the seasons.
Fairly predictable = room for trouble
In some ways I agree with you, but just in the last two weeks I’ve seen forecasts that were “wrong enough” to really screw up a crossing like that. One day, the wind blew in a completely different direction than forecast, ans the other day, it blew 25 to 30 mph instead of 15. As an inland paddler I seldom need to worry about such things, and I bet that I miss a lot of those cases because I don’t need to pay much attention to the forecast in the first place. My hunch is that such mistakes in forecasting are not unusual. On the great lakes, either of the forecast errors I mentioned would totally change things, likely making the difference between a do-able trip and not.
Trip Report
Check this out…
http://www.paddling.net/places/showReport.html?2790
You might send a message to the author offline for advice. I have not seen them post here for a long time .
Question Guideboat Guy
What’s your longest crossing … where , distance, conditions?
Where was your roughest crossing - where, distance, conditions?
Good advice so far
Hey Ryan,
I’m glad your thinking about tackling this crossing.
It is so tempting standing on the beach and just wondering what it would be like to paddle over the horizon! You obviously are smart enough to know that you need certain skills (not all of them paddling skills), otherwise you wouldn’t have posted here.
There is a very slight west to east current on the lake - about half a knot from what I’ve been told. You will be affected by the wind much more than that though. Long Point can generate rip currents.
You’ll need to work on obtaining a very efficient forward stroke. If you have done mostly whitewater or recreational paddling you’ll definitely need to work on your mechanics. Only an instructor/coach or very knowledgeable friend can help you with this.
As mentioned above, long solo crossing are either boring in good weather or terrifiying in bad weather, but somehow it is always worth it and strangely addictive. I’ve done some easy 8 and 9 mile crossings on Lake Erie and Lake Michigan and some hard, windy, 3 and 4 milers as well. Throw in a one day 50 mile Pensylvania Lake Erie shoreline traverse and I have a good idea of what you’re going to encounter, and I still encourage you to do it. Heck, I’ve been thinking about the same trip myself!
My advice: Go with someone else, a friend, paddling buddy, or guide. It makes a world of difference in safety and simply fun. When i’m on my own miles out and the horizon is not getting any closer, it sort of sucks. But with someone else the miles cruise by so much faster and you have someone to share in the glory of making it (or saving your butt). If you are set on a solo trip, i understand, just know what you’re getting yourself into.
A good opportunity to learn some skills you will need would be to take Exkursion Outfitters Coastal Kayak Skills class coming up in September right there at Presque Isle. Myself and another ACA certified sea kayak instructor will be taking a group (from the Pittsburgh area) through a day of navigation, communication, rescue, and paddling skills for the coastal environment. The prerequisites are our Level II and Rescue classes. You can see the whole schedule of classes at exkursion.com. Feel free to email me any questions you might have about our classes or the crossing.
Oh, don’t forget you’ll want to get a US Passport or card before you go.
I sailed Lake Erie for 5 years.
I know that section of the lake pretty well. Your trip relies on one BIG thing. The weather. I have seen it go from flat calm to Big confused waves and 40 knot winds in less than 10 minutes. Carry a VHF hand held so you can call in help. Carry a cell phone with weather radar to keep your butt out of trouble.
You already know the answer to that, …
– Last Updated: Aug-09-12 6:26 PM EST –
... which of course is the reason you asked. This is not the first time since I've been on this site you've attempted to belittle me for saying something about wind and wave conditions without being an off-shore boater.
My point is that when the the wind forecast is wrong to the extent as in my two examples, even though landlubbers like myself will often be comfortable with that margin of error, I doubt if someone well on their way into a 30-mile crossing would feel the same. I base that on the fact that one thing I love to do is go out playing on a big lake when the wind is blowing 25 to 30 mph. Go ahead and tell me (as you did a few years ago) how intimately familiar you are with this lake and that I know nothing about wind or waves. Granted, a kayak has a lot less wind resistance than the boat I use in those conditions, but since kayakers often remark on these boards that paddling in such wind is very difficult (though to me, they sometimes make it sound like a headwind of that strength is much worse than I myself find it to be) and not once have you chimed in to say they are wrong, I wonder why you make the implication that my assessment of paddling in such wind is wrong now?
Granted, a forecast error like that isn't likely on a particular day, but to me, making note of the fact that it can and does happen seems safer than betting on average forecasting success in the context of a trip like this one.
Let me ask you, is it an irrelevant observation that the wind-speed forecast can be wrong by the amount that I recently observed? Do you actually disagree with me that such a forecast error might have a big effect on such a trip as that planned by the O.P.? If you say yes in both cases, I'd like to hear why.
Also …
Not sure where you are located if this is closer…
http://gokayaknow.com/index.php/about-keith-wikle/paddler-profile/marius-asipauskas-paddler-profile/
Another $0.02
As a member of the USCG and a kayaker, I would strongly advise against a solo trip like this until you have smaller crossings or long trips solo under your belt. But for any solo or small group of kayakers, I highly recommending filing a “float plan” with a responsible friend or family member that consists of time/location of departure and estimation of arrival, emergency contacts, ect ect. Your first job once you make land fall is to contact this individual. I don’t know about cell phone reception on the lake, but I would recommend regular check in intervals, say every 2 hours if possible via cell phone or marine radio. Generally, if you are set for 2 hour intervals, normally, if a check in is missed, it may be 3-4 hours before emergency services are contacted. Then SAR assets (Search and Rescue) would normally take ateast 30 minutes just to get on scene, and who knows how long to locate you. There are other factors, but all in all, if something goes wrong, are you prepared to spend 10 hours or even longer in the water, waiting for help if something goes wrong? On a bright sunny day, may not be an issue, but what if foul weather kicks up as it can easilly do on the Great Lakes. Be prepared for the worst.
Then again, I am probably crazy enough to want to try this too one day, so my adventurous side says ‘heck yeah!’, my professional side said, plan, plan and PLAN for the worst.
Good luck!
The Rescue Thing
– Last Updated: Aug-09-12 7:47 PM EST –
You and only you will be rescued.
ALL gear, kayak, paddles will be left - in the water
Coast Guard C-130 aircraft cost
about $4,200 an hour to operate,
Coast Guard helicopters about $4,400 an hour,
Coast Guard cutters cost about $1,550 an hour
Coast Guard small boats also cost between
$300 to $400 an hour to run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_HH-65_Dolphin
Just the other day
http://www.goerie.com/article/20120808/NEWS02/308079894/Coast-guard-fire-crews-search-for-kayakers
http://www.uscg.mil/d9/airstaDetroit/
depends on why rescue needed
If very dangerous waters that require special coast guard assist you probably are correct but some other scenarios like being sea sick or tired can sometimes include some nice boater helping. I’ve seen such boats pull kayaks and such on board assuming calm enough conditions.
But still it’s always best to never assume a rescue is even possible – it’s a backup to a backup.
Appreciation
Thanks for all the info, links, and advice. My hope is to find at least one kayaking partner. But now I have my work cut out for me, and that is excellent. I have no exact time frames, but will digest this information, increase my knowledge, and enhance my skills. Some good learning opportunities have been presented here, and I will be following through with them as I can.