To the OP
I understood your question perfectly and was just trying to point out that you would still be exposed to water against your skin if you were wearing a wet suit.
Unfortunately there are many here that need to ask “why?”, “how”, “what”, etc along with never giving a helpful answer.
Jack L
Context Helps A Lot…
– Last Updated: Aug-12-15 2:43 PM EST –
I kept reading this thread only to learn, if nothing else, what is the reason that may be for not wanting to get wet in sport that is done inherently in a wet environment.
So, eventually, we get there (the underlying reason) after some roundabout assumptions and diversions. :)
Generally, folks here want to help but the more context, the more likely for helpful advice to surface quicker.
I see some many requests like: "I am a newbie. What kayak should I get?" That's akin to a "big ocean" (of a question)in which we can all pitch our respective stones (assumptions/suggestions).
Frankly, 99% of the time these days, I admit to not even bothering to respond tho' I do glance and sometime react to something. I don't how someone like Celia have the patience to keep on trying to offer advice -- in good faith through her experience through the years -- to these types of general questions. A lot of time for good will (that may or may not be appreciated). Then you get to sometimes read responses by folks who are so fervently convinced about their answers being the "right" ones despite really not having that much experience or exposure to breath of equipment, venues, training and appropriate skills and awareness.
sing
No longer taking on the windmills.
Have you asked your doctor?
Maybe he/she could come up with some suggestions to avoid whatever issues you are having while enjoying a wet sport.
BTW, like you, when I first posted here last year I knew zip about the sport. I was quickly informed what a poor choice I had made in the kayak I had just purchased. Rather than being insulted after being told my $400+ bucks had been foolishly spent, I was grateful that experienced paddlers were concerned enough about my safety and ability to progress to teach me some realities about the sport.
There’s a great opportunity to learn here and I hope your journey is as much fun as mine has been.
Both
You are cool in a wetsuit until you warm up the thin layer of water, and per Bryan Nystrom, you also have to warm up the air inside the closed-cell neoprene. Both warmed layers then provide (differing amounts of) insulation.
The two arguments ignore the thermal behavior of the material they don’t think is important. But the water layer and the air bubbles in the neoprene are both involved in the thermal behavior of the suit. You can argue about the relative insulation value provided, but they are both involved.
A baggy wetsuit doesn’t work because the warmed water layer is continuously flushed away, and is therefore not able to warm the air bubbles in the neoprene and the system is not able to function as intended.
So we’re all right, let’s just get along…
Have you tried
plugging the front scuppers as well as the seat scuppers? Is that where the water is coming in? Or if you’re getting a lot of paddle drips, do you have drip rings on your paddle?
I paddle a Hurricane Skimmer 128 SOT, and don’t use scupper plugs because the water doesn’t come up through the scupper holes. But I understand how uncomfortable it can be to sit on a wet seat all day, especially in cooler weather, as my SOT’s seat is not removable and if it rains on the way to the launch, it stays wet. So I use an inflatable thermarest type pad on the seat and that takes care of the problem.
I hope this helps, and welcome to p.net, forum home of some really nice and helpful and experienced paddlers, and a few assholes who think they know everything. It won’t take you long to sort them out.
No. I Disagree With…
– Last Updated: Aug-12-15 3:52 PM EST –
"You are cool in a wetsuit until you warm up the thin layer of water, and per Bryan Nystrom, you also have to warm up the air inside the closed-cell neoprene."
Actually, it's the other way around. When I wear my winter wetsuit, I tend to get hot, especially if I am actively paddling. In fact, the strategy to deal with that is to deliberately roll (sometimes repeatedly) to get some water into the suit to cool my body back down. Eventually, when I paddle enough, I get hot again and have to roll again. The water is actually sucking/dissipating the build up of heat that the neoprene is effectively retaining/trapping against my body.
As the science goes, air is a less effective thermal conductor (thus better insulator) than water. The gas trapped in the neoprene is the primary insulator for the wetsuit. The water getting in is sucking some body energy/calories to warm up. Hopefully the suit is well fitting enough that the "flushthrough" is minimal so one doesn't keep buring energy to warm that layer of water. My strategy of repeated rolling to cool down is to increase the rate of flushthrough and letting water conduct body heat away.
sing
Cooties??? Seriously???
Pikabike, in my neck of the woods, cooties are lice. I believe the OP is referring to the common yeast infection, and since we are all grown-ups here, perhaps you could refrain from implying the OP has lice and use the common technical term.
Some women are unfortunately more prone to yeast infections than others and finding ways to avoid them is a priority.
Love you sissy!
Right on!
Just When One Thinks It’s Settled…
I thought consensus has been reached among the PNet women, at least, about the challenge that is facing the OP. Apparently not.
sing
The PLUS!!!
is that the OP already stated that she got a behind the scene email that understood and addressed her underlying issue and challenge.
PNet advice succeeds one way or another. 
sing
hypocrisy so thick you can cut it with a
– Last Updated: Aug-12-15 4:23 PM EST –
knife.
I think you misplaced your self-awareness.
I really doubt pika meant to say she had crabs or anything else specific, because the OP was intentionally vague and because the term is often used that way. And because pikabike is helpful and not malicious.
But I'm sure the OP appreciates your public online diagnosis.
When we new the water was cold…
We would hydrate before the dive knowing we could get a warm up.
Thank you, slushpaddler
I thought the OP was talking about microscopic organisms, specifically bacteria in a urinary infection or yeast in a vaginal one. Where I grew up, cooties did not refer to lice. When people talked about lice, they SAID “lice.”
1 Like
OK
I understand your points and agree with you. But you are talking about overheating while paddling, i.e. using a wetsuit in the air. Strictly speaking, you are not using the wetsuit for its intended purpose as an immersion garment. Obviously, the nature of the external heat sink is completely different above versus below the water line.
My point was only that the water film, the air bubbles (and the neoprene matrix holding the bubbles) are all part of the insulating effect, to varying degrees.
As An "Immersion Garment"
if water is a significant factor in making a wetsuit warmer, then surfers would be as warm in a 4/3 suit in the water as I would be in 6/5/4 on top of my waveski (out of the water). But, that is not what happens at my homebreak. The surfers will be sooner in their 6/5/4 winter suit while I am still in my fall/spring 4/3 suit for 3-4 weeks longer. And, then as we head into spring, I am actually out of my 6/5/4 suit and into a 4/3 sooner than the surfers.
The better insulating neoprene (but and the ever present flushthrough/seepage) of a wetsuit is what make it a better/safer choice for surfers and paddlesurfers than a drysuit. I gave up on drysuit because if I layered enough for the water temps, I would quickly get wet in my drysuit from the exertion of sprinting to catch waves. Once my layers get wet, my "dry"suit no longer offer the same initial insulation (of dry tapped air) and I would get cold even on top of my kayak, never mind immersion in the water. So, invariably I would end up being cold and wet in my drysuit and finding myself ending a surf session sooner because of this. However, in my wetsuit, I can roll and flush out additional heat as much as needed to cool down. This same quality of insulation of the tight fitting neoprene also means not having to worry about total loss of insulation from rip in a drysuit (a major and real concern on my home break is a reef break of boulders and shells).
sing
I didn’t know that cooties had a
definition.
When I was a kid, I just knew that they were bad and I didn’t want them, especially from a kid that wasn’t well liked or was considered weird.
Regional variations.
1 Like
Well actually…
– Last Updated: Aug-12-15 8:02 PM EST –
what has been reported was my first thought. But I did not want to put words into the OPer's mouth. And paddling per se is not going to change anything about it.
Ding ding ding
Over 50 posts before someone used the word Vagina.
Move along kids.
Impossible to stay dry…
in a surf ski. I do understand as sometimes sitting in water for several hours isn’t the most comfortable and for some women could lead to more UTI’s if prone to them. I think it is more of a concern for those of us with a little age. Anyways, I wear bike shorts if using my ski without a pad, or two pairs of compression shorts if paddling my Seda and maybe use a pad as it lifts me a little out of the wet. The most important thing for me is to change into dry clothes as soon as I can after I get off the water.
Brian is correct
– Last Updated: Aug-12-15 9:39 PM EST –
So is Wikepedia (look up wetsuits and read the subsection having the title "Insulation").
What I found interesting was that the insulation value of wetsuit-style neoprene in air is actually lower than that of the air itself, meaning the insulation value isn't all that good. When your are submerged in water, the same neoprene does an even poorer job of retaining body heat, but because free water would take heat away a lot faster, the suit still works very well in *comparative* terms.
The article explains what REALLY provides the insulation (it's not the layer of water inside the suit). So, like Brian said, the suit keeps you warm in spite of the water, not because of it.