Significantly lower rear deck is…
… definitely a plus.
size of a persoin matters
A gentleman that has large thighs may have a harder time than someone that has smaller. I beleive that there are many varibles to this answer. what do you think? does leaning forward vs. backwards make much of a difference. I know that it does with all strokes.
Not Very Much Experience
I should have stated that I do not have a lot of experience with ocean cockpits. I re-read my thread thinking I did say that but I did not. I have played around in the water with one GL style boat in the water which had an ocean cockpit and attempted to dry fit into one other. Very tight fit for me in the dry fit attempt and that may have been the cause for difficulty. However, getting into or out, doing a wet exit, and doing a re-entry and roll all presented more difficulty for me when playing with the ocean cockpit. I did not attempt a paddle float entry.
The size and shape of the cockpit and the size and shape of the person may have a bearing on slipping in and out. I am six feet tall and have a body that is not as flexable as it was in younger years. I have a bit of experience with keyhole cockpits, enough for a level of comfort and that may also add to my experience of having more difficulty with an ocean cockpit.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
Got a lot harder
– Last Updated: May-22-07 8:25 PM EST –
after I dislocated my shoulder. And even upright dry exits became pretty painful too.
Yes, true also in slalom kayaks.
A tipped cockpit and the low rear deck allow the paddler to throw the torso way back to unload the bow and/or sink the stern.
I believe all the above
is BULL ROAR. I think the Greenlanders made round cockpit openings because: a. it was easier to bend the wood into an aproximate circle.
b. It fit their tuiliks more readily.
Think what you want…
– Last Updated: May-22-07 11:26 PM EST –
...but that's not the case. Greenland techique depends on the ability to brace one's thighs under the masik beam (the one at the front of the cockpit), so the abdominal muscles can be used. Given that the position of the masik determines the size of the opening in the boat, there's no point in making the cockpit hoop any larger than that dimension. Historically, older kayaks often had somewhat oval or even squarish coamings, but once Europeans arrived and Greenlanders could get mast hoops to use for coamings without having to bend them, round cockpits became more common.
They had enough wood to build kayaks and the larger umiaks, so they certainly could have made larger cockpits if they felt there was any advantage to them.
Well
your knees have to be somewhere when you roll, the masik is as good a place as any.
Thanks Everyone
– Last Updated: May-29-07 8:17 PM EST –
Aesthetics! Beauty is the one I understand. In the bike world all the frame makers have gone carbon this and triangular that. But the most beautiful frames in the world are lugged steel. Not the most practical but absolutely the classiest.
My Waterford thanks you
and we quite agree. Steel lugged and brazed is a beautiful thing. (The guy who did my frame was drafted by Waterford from Serrotta when they went all tig-welded.)
OC newbie
Ocean cockpit = the closest I have ever come to drowning.
To be fair I have a pretty accurate W Greenland replica SOF so it is not exactly the most spacious cockpit out there. Wet exiting when I was new to the boat (and sport) caused 2 moments when I realized I could really get drowned doing this. Great motivation to learn how to balance brace and roll to any side.
My biggest OC issues tend to be getting in and out in rough conditions off of launches and rocky shores. By the time I get in and get the spray skirt on, the boat has taken quite a few waves over the coaming, which in January is not exactly my idea of a good thing.
So some observations from a guy (granted an inexperienced newcomer) with both a tradition SOF with an ocean cockpit, and a Valley with Keyhole.
I found that my knees popped out into the skirt when trying to roll the Valley, but it sure is nice to just jump into a boat butt first and get the skirt on before it shipped to much water.
As for the ocean cockpit, I really like it but it is much more difficult getting in and out and forget trying to get inside the boat to work on anything. I have to prop the boat upside down and snake my way inside like a bovine gynecologist. Forget getting two hands inside at the same time. However I paddled an Anas Acuta once briefly and it was much roomier and the fact that it was an OC didn’t even register.
It’s all in the design
I have to squirm into my skin boats, but that’s because I built them to fit that way. Commercial boats with ocean cockpits are typically MUCH easier to enter and exit, the one exception being the Nordkapp. I slide right into my Pintail and Anas Acuta, even with a 3" foam masik installed under the deck.
reenter and roll
– Last Updated: May-30-07 8:21 AM EST –
Hey, if you can reenter and roll you really don't need another method. But trying to cowboy reenter is fun on choppy days, after lots of practice I can get back in my explorer without paddlefloat by straddling the deck and just sliding in. YMMV.
We know why
both of us can slide into skinny boats even though we are over 6’ tall, Brian…
'Cause we’re skinny!! (I recently lost 20lbs)
Scott
what did you expect?
The Romany only offers a keyhole…
That certainly helps…
…but the key is that the boats have low aft decks that allow the paddler to slide in easily.
You are right about the aft decks
and cockpit angle - but it also helps that my knees can bend the opposite direction a bit too. Right now I can sit with legs out straight and pushing down on thighs and yet still raise my ankles/feet about 4 fingers thickness off the floor. Makes entry and exit easier for anyone. Try it.
S
I’ll say one thing
After trying to clean and adjust my footpegs last night in the greenlander, I was cursing the OC. I think I pulled a muscle.
But I’d never trade for a keyhole. Body contact, smaller spray deck, increased legroom and freedom, and yes, aesthetics, have sold me on OCs.
One word…
FOAM.
Dump the stupid footpegs!!
Scott
scott
I know, I know.
The only reason I cling to them is so that I can make the boat usable to others with longer/shorter legs.
Was considering a foam footpad for those with longer legs, with an additional “velcro-in” pad the same shape so that I could reach. Also considering a footpump.
Any thoughts?