Some clarification
I never thought there’d be such nit-picking about the definition of the word “kneel” as Dirk brought up. But hey, we’re having a discussion, so let’s get right down to the finer points.
I don’t know anybody who paddles for any length of time while kneeling with all their weight on their knees. This would be extremely tiring and not very stabile.
I wrote earlier (as did others) many canoeists who “kneel” are indeed taking a three-point stance: knees in the chines with their butt leaning against the front edge of the seat. In FreeStyle we routinely shift from this 3-point position to “true” kneeling (butt unsupported) as part of weight shifting used in a wide variety of FreeStyle maneuvers. Typically when we kneel for one of these maneuvers we place both knees in one chine as we lift our butts up. This transfers weight from the centerline of the canoe forward. This forward weight shift causes the bow of the boat to pitch forward slightly while at the same time raising the stern partially (or sometimes completely) out of the water. This weight shift is coupled with a strong heel to one side (that’s why we place both knees in one chine). These body/weight shifts combine with an initiation stroke (used to set-up a spin) and a static paddle placement to make our canoe go into a spin.
WW canoeists also don’t “kneel” (butt unsupported) strictly speaking. Instead they partially support themselves with their foam pedestal – between their legs.
Canadian “Style” paddlers also don’t “kneel” (again, butt unsupported). They sit on their legs or on a bean bag or other small bag to take the train off their leg muscles. Style paddlers sit this way in one chine.
Native people also did not “kneel” strictly speaking. Typically they sat on their legs and as needed kneeled against a thwart in a 3-point position. They also stood up and poled as needed. It should be noted that there is no evidence anywhere that shows native bark canoes even had seats, in fact they did not. A seat in a canoe is a thoroughly modern invention. Seats did not appear in Eastern North American canoes until the later part of the 19th Century. They were added sometime during the transition period between bark canoes and cedar canvas canoes. Seats are a “white guy” thing.
As to sitting versus 3-point kneeling for flatwater racing, sitting in various positions, but usually with a foot-brace (another modern invention) is used in flatwater racing. Power can be transferred most effectively from the paddler to the water in this position. It’s not as stabile as 3-point kneeling by any stretch of the imagination, but it does work well for flatwater racing.
Standing in a canoe like one does while poling is probably the most powerful position of all. However, few would ague that it’s a stabile position. Well, maybe a Duckhead or two might… but then again they’re Duckheads… ;^)
To sum up - kneeling in 3-point position is extremely stabile, more stabile than sitting. I’ll just continue to call this kneeling and not bother to quantify the “3-point” bit – that should go without saying…
Make that 4 cents worth this time around… - Randall
Whitewater slalom kneeling
Tommy asked:
[…]
For some reason I have the idea that in whitewater slalom,
C1 racers (kneeling) have faster times than kayak racers (sitting).
Anybody care to confirm or deny?
a slalom kayak is a little less maneuverable because of the
extended legs, but nevertheless still a bit faster (about 3%?)
because of the double bladed paddle technique.
A slalom C2 is faster though
kneeling or sitting?
arkay wrote:
I never thought there’d be such nit-picking about the definition of the word “kneel” as Dirk brought up.
But hey, we’re having a discussion, so let’s get right down to the finer points.
Indeed, for the sake of the discussion about this subject, I find it necessary to make the advocates of kneeling realize that what they do, could be viewed in another way. Especially because most of them never do kneel without a seat… But normally, I just would call it kneeling too.
Point is that some people get scared about sitting, when such a kneeler advocate insists that kneeling is the best way to paddle a canoe.
a stupid question
This may be obvious to some but as a kayaker and recently paddling a solo canoe I have found the most effective forward stroke with a double blade paddle is when seated in the canoe and using the footbrace to power off for the rotation. When I have tried to use the double blade paddle in rough water in a kneeling position I can’t get the same power from my legs to power the stroke.
For those that use double blades on occasion, how would I use the kneeling position for power? Even the sit and switch with a bent shaft canoe paddle would require a seated position to be effective?
Kneeling
In rough conditions is the way to go. It eliminates one step before praying.
Andy
AMEN!
Can I get a Halelujia!
Brother Tommy on my knees 
Indeed
Kneeling as practiced by many canoeists is a three point position; 1 butt, two knees. In my case I usually lean against the seat – I not only realize what I do when I say I’m “kneeling” I’ve also included the 3-point description in each of the three posts I’ve made to this thread – so that others understand exactly what I’m saying. I think most people get it, if not perhaps they need to work on reading for comprehension. Let’s move on now. - Randall
Power from the torso
Kneeling in my flatwater boats I have on occasion found myself powering right off the seat.
I guess if I had to I could rig thigh straps and or knee cups like in my whitewater boats.
Seriously though I think kneeling is for control.
Sitting with a footbrace might work better for raw power.
Tommy
Make them so they extend from the sides
of the boat, from just below the gunwale. Often you can use Minicell. They do not usually need to be like kayak thigh hooks, but if you have something to brace your feet against, then your thighs will catch effectively even under partial thigh hooks.