I thought three or four Sea Winds at $3,200 each wasn't that bad, afterall it was my inherdiance to spend as I wished, but at $4,500 got thinking just how many can I paddle at once anyway. Besides each of mine is unique and the Kruger Canoe Company has said they will not make any more of the "skin" ones as it is too expensive to make the mold repairs after, and have refused to make any more light ones as well.
Used ones have gone for almost new prices lately. I could buy a lot of other things, like that new building we need with the extra cash sitting around in the "Winds". Got thinking that just maybe I should sell two or three. AND then there is Norm's "offer". Hummmm ....
So, Norm. Just how many of and when do you want my extra Sea Winds at $6,000.00 each?!!! A personal check will be ok, and I'll even drive them out to you. ;^)
Sea 1 I paddled a Clipper Sea 1 canoe across Canada last year in a 5 and a half month trip Mine was a Kevlar ultralight and held up incredibly well. I’d do the same trip again with the exact same canoe and not be at all worried about it. The price on them is $3195 CANADIAN. Lead time is maybe 3 or 4 weeks. Very fast, tough, durable and you don’t break the bank to get one.
Anybody… Anybody that can spend $35,000.00 for one stripper canoe has too much money in my opinion.
Where do you paddle a $35,000.00 canoe; in your $5,000,000.00 indoor Olympic sized pool, which is in your $25,000,000.00 mahogany log house, on your $75,000,000.00, 5,000 acre ranch?
Norm is right you get what you pay for Norm is right you get what you pay for. Your not buying a name when you buy a Kruger canoe, you are buying the best canoe ever built period end of statement. I paddled a lightweight 38 pound Kevlar canoe 1,800 miles and paddled a Kruger canoe about 3,000 miles so far (still have 27,000 miles to go http://www.fightingms.org) /and there is no other canoe or kayak that is even in the same ballpark as a Kruger canoe.
The price is high, but the quality and performance is parallel to none. There are many other great canoes out there like the Wenonah encounter which I used on my 1,800 mile canoe trip bell makes a good canoe I hear as well. You don’t need a Kruger canoe to do a long trip. However if you can afford a Sea Wind you won’t be disappointed. Like Norm says you can paddle it for an hour trip or a four year trip. The boat is sort of like magic. I picked my Sea Wind up in Michigan and seen where and how they are built. Each canoe receives individual attention and are made just as Verlen made them. Again I realize the price tag is higher than a lot of other canoes, but in this case the price justifies the boat. Like Norm I would pay $6,000 in a heartbeat for another Sea Wind if that was the price.
“Best” canoe ever built??? I’ve seen a few Krugers and I’d be the first to admit that they are well built and certainly heavy-duty. I once saw a man unload a couple of Krugers off the top of his vehicle by dropping them to the ground (Ka-womp!) and then dragging them single-handed down to water’s edge - like so many hundred pound sacks of grain. Heavy-duty and able to stand up to really rough treatment? You bet! From what I’ve seen they are well worth their cost – for those who have a use or desire for a heavy-duty decked canoe with a rudder. For long distance travel on vast expanses of open water I could well imagine they would be “the berries”.
But personally I would have no use for one.
I would take issue with the claim that they are “the best canoe ever built period end of statement” to be an over statement. It all depends on your usage. Whitewater, Freestyle, wilderness tripping with extended portages, tight creek running; these are a few examples that spring to mind where I would find a Kruger to be a serious handicap.
For some situations they excel and in my humble opinion are well worth the rather hefty price tag. But “the best canoe ever built”? I respectfully disagree. There are just too many variables - no canoe design/model can ever be the single best canoe. Randall
very specialized indeed They are very custom and very detailed.
Have to wonder how many he can put out in a month. Even if it’s 2 per month at $4k each, that’t $96k in sales. I bet he spends at least $2k, if not more, in materials for each complete hull.
So that’s $48 to keep the lights on and provide a living. Not a whole lot for the product he has.
If he raises prices and keeps his backlog, well then that’s a smart business move. Time will tell.
Cost Estimate Jem your calculations are very close. Mark is not in this to get rich. He is just carrying on the way Verlen wanted him too. Part of the money he gets for the canoes go to Verlen’s wife Jenny, and some goes to Mark for expenses and cost of materials. Actually his prices have not gone up in the classic way. Kruger canoes offered “accessories” in the past to bring the craft up to “expedition” outfitting. Many persons found after buying the “stripped down” model they wanted the additional catamaran tube, or mast step to be able to sail, or additional tie downs. They were then faced with the logistics problems of getting them back to Mark to have them added which took away from the limited time Mark has while building other boats. So, Mark just decided to build one standard expedition model at the same cost a “standard” one cost with all the upgrades. Just as a matter of note, someone actually had the audacity to ask for a 10% “finders fee” for each canoe they had a hand in selling for him!! Mark didnt feel he could afford that additional expense!
Oh by the way Mick if you want to make a fair profit on your used Sea Winds that you “bought” for $3200 each, call me I’ll gladly buy all your Sea Winds and relieve you of the “canoe that isnt for you”!
Best all around hull design I’ve seen Arkay, to me, the hull design is the best all around hull I’ve seen, and I’ve paddled many, many canoes. I’ve raced slalom canoes (open and decked, plastic and glass), a high-kneel Delta C1 at the 1994 Nationals, and wildwater actively 1996-2003, in addition to much cruising and playboating.
The combination of the decent rocker for maneuverability, rudder for great tracking, length and narrow width (for a canoe) for speed, shape for stability, and toughness results in a canoe that can comfortably go many places, and in my opinion more places than any other type of boat.
I have comfortably paddled my Monarch through solid Class 3 rapids, and am confident that I could run a full Class 3 run (like the Ocoee) with no problems with rudder up, and then drop the rudder and outrun most other non-racing boats on the flats. With the rudder up, it reminds me of a Blue Hole OCA for maneuverability, and I’ve run those through Section 4 of the Chattooga. It also front surfs very well (quite fun with the rudder - you can move back and forth no hands).
Best to all people? I agree, not likely. But best boat to paddle all places? I think so. (And the Sea Wind is definitely outfitted much better than my Monarch.)
versatile Sea Wind Sea Wind is designed without any doubts as a heavy duty expedition boat. However, I consider her the most versatile boat in my fleet as well. And I have a few quite different boats (http://users.frii.com/uliasz/wayfarer/paddling_fleet.htm).
I take Sea Wind for expedition paddling like WaterTribe events, but, at the same time, I enjoy to take her for a short evening paddling on a local lake or river, especially, in winter. I like to paddle Sea Wind on small twisty creeks like the Dismal River in Nebraska Sand Hills (http://users.frii.com/uliasz/wayfarer/dismal.htm). I wonder if I would paddle down the Dismal in my Sisson kayak without damaging it.
Of course, it’s not the best boat for everything. E.g., I don’t take Sea Wind for Texas Water Safari (too heavy for that race with many portages).
informative and interesting post I have been trying to bone up on Krugers for a while now. I chatted with Mick many moons ago. Still haven’t had a chance to “prove” a Sea Wind yet. Im kinda sorry that I missed the two that were for sale in California 2 years ago real “cheap” as far as we are talking lately.
I am looking for a Kayak for my daughters. They / I are used to open canoes. I would like to build a stitch and glue Rob Roy with them, but I will not try to fool myself. I am trying to get some honest opinions as to the “LOON” series by OT. They have both played in easy water together in a pair of them and they really like them. I am concerned that they would grow out of them and may want more of a costal cruiser / tripper type too soon. They are middle and highschool age. I have read and studied as much as I could find on the OT loon 120 and 138. Lots of folks seem to like it as a beginer boat, I just cant afford going through two this year and then upgrading next year yaddy yaddy yad.
By the way, if you think that these post are contraversial, you should check out some of the fiddle/ vilon post. I thought the sailing ref anchors was ruff untill I got there.
Thanks for yer input, and I hope nobody finds out much of my backgound and rubs my nose in it.
Considering kevlar canoe/kayak prices in general, the Sea Wind pricing seems reasonable to me. It is a specialty expedition canoe made in small quantity. They are not going to build them unless they can make a living doing it.
I would sure like to have one for coastal exploration and long distance paddling.
But, my next ‘boating’ purchase will be a wood-canvas canoe course (individual instruction) for about $2,500.00. And, this is for me doing all (or most of)the work.
approximate size? If you are seriously considering building as an option, you could always take a look at the Squeedunk Grebe. You’d have to work from the offsets, but it is a nice little boat.
and probably some other companies that I have forgotten.
For plastic kayaks, our 14 year old daughter likes her Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 140 and our Impex Sea Breeze. You could also check with Tideline Kayaks out there in California. He has a smaller boat in the works. Dang, I’m forgetting someone. Oh, yeah - Seda is out on the west coast as well, http://www.sedakayak.com/
and I think they have something in a smaller size and their prices were pretty reasonable eons back when I last checked.
I think I have found a Tempest 165 within 3 hours, barely used. He’s down to 900.00 Maybe will negotiate more. I still would like a Seawind. Right place right time???
If anyone knows of any downers on the Tempest 165 for a couple of mid teen girls, or if they really think that they know of a better deal or rig for the bucks let me know. If I can get them squared away for the next few years then I can recalculate the Seawind. I never hear much about the Kruger Kayak??? Not that I am a kayak fan, and I do not want to start anything. Is there anyone that has been in both the Kayak and the Seawind in “big Ugly break” that could share with us?? I really like the loading aspects of the bigger piteveryone does, but can you survive a roll with the Seawind??
Kruger Dreamcatcher The Kruger Dreamcatcher is their kayak version, however keep in mind it’s built from the same hull mold as the Seawind. Both boats are canoe hulls; deeper and wider than most seakayaks. Think “Seacanoe”. The Dreamcatcher does have a much smaller cockpit opening than the Seawind and a rear bulkhead with a real nice deck hatch, thus having some seakayak characteristics. A single blade paddle is still the prefered method of propulsion with this boat. Neither one is designed to capsize or roll like a true seakayak. They are designed to stay upright. Someone may have rolled either boat in the past, but I do not have 1st hand knowledge of this. As for handling big surf, it’s dependant upon the skill of the paddler as is all paddle craft in these conditions. One of the many bonuses of these boats is the ability to quickly catamaran two boats together giving you significant stability.
Some people roll both I believe. I was told that Verlen’s son in law used to roll them. I have seen his old thigh braces for doing just that in the Kruger shop.
The biggest problem in rolling the Kruger boats would be turning them into a tightfitting, uncomfortable cockpit from the loose, comfortable, room to move canoe cockpit they now have. Custom made and fitted thighbraces and a lot of closed cell foam …
the bottom line The more I think about it, OT Loons are cheap. The 136 can carry whatever they need, if not, they can take the canoe. Spend less on the kids first yak, save for my Sea Wind. They should get thier own second boat, rather canoe or yak. (no brainer, I am thinking clearly now??) Thanks for helping me through this.
best canoe ever Maybe some of you misunderstood me when I said a Kruger canoe was “the best canoe ever built period end of statement. There are many great canoes out there and it does depend a lot on what your going to use the canoe for when buying one.
Out of all the canoes there one has to be one that is the best and that is the Kruger canoe. I am not just basing this on my own opinion.
Lets start with world records. Verlens hull design has set more world records than any other hull design ever constructed. That has to count for something right? The most recent Guinness world set in one of Kruger’s boats was set by me for the longest solo canoe/kayak trip and the record grows everyday I paddle on. When I said the sea wind is the best boat ever built I meant all around boat. There are specialized boats that will out do the sea wind in certain areas.
However in overall performance judged on day trips, weekend trips, whitewater, distance trips, ocean trips ect… The Kruger canoe will beat any boat out there period end of statement when judged on all areas. If you had to pick the best all around boat it is the Kruger canoe period end of statement. Now I said “all around” yes there are boats that are specialized that would beat the sea wind, but for all around canoe or kayak the sea wind is the best.
It is hard to pick out the single best boat ever built, but if you had to it would be the Kruger canoe hands down no question about it. Unless you paddled one you absolutely have no clue. Every single inch of the sea wind was gone over several times by Verlen. Now verlen was a tank operator and also taught advanced fighter pilots in WWII. The attention to detail it takes to fly an airplane let alone teach advanced fighter pilots is unreal. Verlen applied that same level of deatail to his boats. Most of the boats maker today sit behind a desk and don’t really do much field testing on their canoes. Verlen paddled an 18,000 mile canoe trip to work out the bugs and find the ware spots on the sea wind.
I have been following the postings about the Sea winds,
Please let me know if anyone is willing to sell one out there. I am very interested in making an inside passage run to the North from Washington State with one.