Ah, so basically, have it parallel to the shore/ramp? I think this is what I’ve seen some friends to. There are also wooden docks, but it’s a bit trickier to get in and out like that with the boat totally floating (plus, sometimes motorboats are in the way).
Why new? You tend to get more kayak for your money, on the used market. Especially if you are uncertain in what you want. A new boat depreciates, as soon as you drive away. I have owned many kayaks, over 25 years. Most where bought on the used market at better prices.
My last new plastic kayak, was a Valley Sirona 15.10. I paid ~$1700+ shipping for it online( an end of season sale, from a Rhode Island dealer). It had everything I thought I wanted in a plastic kayak. But after taking delivery and paddling it the first time, I knew it was not for me. I paddled it a couple years, before selling it for at a big loss. It never grew on me.
I have also bought mistakes, on the used market. But typically break even or make a little money, reselling it. As a bonus, used kayaks may come with extra gear like paddles and PFDs.
Used kayaks should start popping up on Market Place and Craigslist soon. Not sure where in Ohio you are. But looking around the Cleveland area on Market Place, I saw a few decent touring style kayaks in the $700-1000 range. Others will pop up as the weather warms. Good Luck and spend wisely.
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Yes, parallel to the shore/ramp. An introductory ACA kayak class teaches this kayak entry/exit skill because we have to execute these actions every time we paddle. And, lots more paddling skills are taught also.
If the ramp is busy, wait until it is your turn and then enter/exit as quickly as possible and immediately after out of the kayak, move the kayak so you no longer block the ramp so others can use it.
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I agree that used boats can be a great value; however, inexperienced boaters need to be careful. I’ve looked at several boats plastic boats that were called in “like new condition.” The pictures looked great, until I saw the kayaks in person. One looked like it had been partially submerged and a badger had tried to claw its way ouy of the bulkheads. The seat pad and back were worn out, the thigh pads worn out and all the bungie cords limp. The other three were in similar condition, with one having jury-rigged junk to operate the rudder. That didn’t bother me with it being a 140 Tsunami, which in my opinion doesn’t need a rudder.
One owner thought the boat was a gold mine rather than a hull. I’m sure someone eventually bought it. Be careful so you don’t wonder whether you saved $800 or threw $800 away. In my searches, good buys often don’t last past the first phone call. This may not always be true, but the longer a boat is on the market, the closer I look at it.
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I went back to the store and just sat in the Virgo for a while (the Leo, too). The Leo was the HV, and it was a bit big, IMO, plus longer and heavier. The Virgo felt pretty good. I was able to tweak the seat so it was mostly comfortable. Still not 100% sold on it, though. Coming from the Tsunami, the lack of under thigh support could be an issue. Overall, I still think the Wilderness seat system is more adjustable and comfortable.
Also, even with basic, lightweight tennis shoes on, I could not put my feet vertically in the Virgo with crunching my toes into the top of the deck. Of course, I paddle with them angled, but it’s a tight fit, IMO, and my feet aren’t huge (shoe size 10.5 or 11). If I were wearing big boots, I could see it becoming an issue. I also don’t like the open style foot pegs. I normally wear shoes, but have paddled barefoot on occasion, and that could be another problem.
I don’t know. Overall, the Virgo MV seems like a great boat, but just not sure it’s different enough from my Tsunami to be worth the money. It sounds like if I want to stay with the Wilderness brand, and get a boat that’s still made, it’d have to be a Tempest. I’d really want to test that in the water, though, as I’ve read some review saying the primary stability is great, and others that say it’s non-existent. Also, the Tempest is a little bigger and heavier than I’d like as well.
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A “mostly comfortable” seat at first can become mostly uncomfortable pretty fast. That, along with insufficient deck height to move your feet around, tells me there’s probably a better choice for you out there somewhere.
Cleveland to Old Forge NY is about 6 1/2 hrs. Lots of boats there to see and try on June 3-4.
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Vertical on the pedals or in the center?
Vertical off the pedals towards the center, if I’m remembering right.
Yeah, about the seat, just not sure. When I got back home and sat in my WS seat, it felt a lot better. Then again, that’s all I’ve paddled in for many years. Maybe I can try a Tempest in person. Not sure I want to go all the way to 17 feet, but at least I know I’ll like the seat. My real concern is, how much more tippy will it feel compared to my Tsunami 140?
While the P&H Virgo seemed like a great boat, it’s also around $2100. For that price, I could just get a Tempest, and call it a day.
Tempest seat bottom is the same, but I believe Tempest is a backband.
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Come up to Western Michigan for the WMCKA Symposium this Memorial day weekend. Good folks there & excellent instructors. There is often some used boats for sale & you may be able to talk to some paddlers about sitting in their kayaks.
I don’t think I have a hull where my feet can go vertical from the pedals. In the center I can stretch straight up. All CD hulls some with high decks.
I decided to give the Tempest 170 a go. It’s 50 bucks cheaper than the 14.5’ Virgo. Plus, the weight is about the same, and I know I’ll like the seat. Hopefully, I adjust to the feel of the boat quickly. We’ll see…
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So, I was able to test out the Virgo, and also a Tempest 170. Both very nice boats. Surprisingly, I the Tempest didn’t feel much faster than the Virgo. It seemed like it took a little longer to get it going, but once it was going, it was fairly easy to paddle. It tracked well, even without the skeg down, but it was also a lot less maneuverable, IMO.
OTOH, the Virgo felt quick, and it was a lot more nimble. The one downside was I’d like a little more foot room, but that was with tennis shoes on. I normally paddle with lightweight water shoes, which would be better. I also liked that the Virgo had a dayhatch right in front of me.
I actually think the Virgo might be a better boat for me. I’m almost 6’, but only about 155. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to do a timed mile in the Virgo. I did that in the Tempest today, and clocked in at 12 mins, paddling pretty hard and with a slight headwind. Normally, I can do a mile in 15 mins, or slightly less in my Tsunami. I may have done 13-something, but can’t remember the conditions. I guess shaving 3 minutes off my mile time is significant, but on the other hand, I don’t race.
IMO, when I first hopped in the Virgo (compared to my Tsunami), I was like, whoa, this thing flies and feels so much lighter. When I hopped in the Tempest, it definitely felt faster than the Tsunami, but I didn’t have that feeling of lightness and acceleration the Virgo gave me. My biggest worry with the Tempest was stability, but after getting it in the water, that was a non-issue. It’s definitely more lively, but I felt comfortable. The water was very flat, so that might be a bit different in waves. The day I paddled the Virgo, the wind was gusting to 25 mph, and waves were probably 1-2 feet (once I got out to the lake). Felt great. The bow seemed to rise up high and slam down a but, but I guess that’s the nature of the boat.
I guess that’s my mini-review. Ideally, I’d get both boats, but I kind of feel like the Virgo would be the better choice. Although the Tempest is quick, it feels a bit like one of those long freighters when I attempt to turn it. I was only edging it moderately since I didn’t want to take a swim, so it would probably turn better if I pushed it more. Still, it’s an effort.
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Test paddling isn’t always convenient, but it’s always a good idea (as just about everyone on this forum will say). Bottom line is that every boat feels a little different to every paddler. Now you can make your decision based on your own experience in addition to the advice and experiences shared here. Good luck!
My current, plastic Tempest 170 has very little rocker, so it is a good straight line cruiser. But it does turn nicely with some edging. Interestingly, my older Kevlar Tempest Pro has more rocker and feels much more maneuverable.
If you like the livelier feel of the Virgo but want to go a little longer you could consider a slightly longer P&H boat. I’ve paddled with people in both an Aries and a Delphin (I don’t know which length Delphin) and they both really liked their kayaks.
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I guess I’ve lost my mind 
I now have a Virgo and a Tempest 170. I was going to return the one I didn’t like, but they are both good, and different enough that I think it’s worth keeping both. Gonna sell my Tsunami 140!
A couple quick things: The Tempest tracks MUCH better than the Virgo without skeg. If I drop a hint of skeg on the Virgo, it’s fine. OTOH, the Virgo maneuvers more easily, especially with the skeg up. Speed wise, the Virgo feels a little lighter when I paddle, and it seems to accelerate quicker. Cruising speed is good, but the Tempest is definitely faster, which I guess is to be expected since it’s 2.5 feet longer. Both really nice boats, so it’ll be nice to have variety. I think I was the only one in my paddling group with only one boat, so now I’ve joined the multi-boat club. Still not 100% sure about the Virgo, and I might end up selling it down the line.
If I had to find a complaint with the Tempest, it’s that the straps for the seat back run across my thighs and exert a little pressure. However, they’re flat, so it doesn’t seem to cause any pain or issues. Just feels a little different than my Tsunami. The Virgo doesn’t straps in that position at all.
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You haven’t lost your mind, just joined the asylum.
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You might be able to move those thigh pads to a position that both hits your thighs in a more optimal position and also moves the straps to a more comfortable angle. You can move each pad front/back and left/right.
Can you posta a picture of the straps.
