looking for a used solo canoe

Rapidfire

– Last Updated: Mar-01-14 5:19 PM EST –

I paddle a Rapidfire with the high rail mounted seat. I wish it was even higher. I am a single blade paddler in all weather and detest using the double blade. But I do race that boat in the Adirondack 90-miler, and the solo-rec class that was essentially created for that type of boat requires use of the double blade. Well, ok, so I have conceded and done several 90-milers in that mode. I would like to have the kneeling modified Rapidfire to play around recreationally on my knees, but my old knees can't paddle all day like that, and I don't believe you can have both seated and kneeling options in the same RF boat.

When not racing in the 90-miler, my primary use of the Rapidfire is for personal race training when I am not able to train with others with my usually voyageur (sometimes C4, sometimes C2) race team. I really like paddling the Rapidfire single blade, and I paddle it quite fast using a variety of combined correction strokes (heavy on the pitch) rather than hit and switch. I am very tempted by the even sleeker Shadow canoe, and have a couple of hours in it, but consider that a single purpose boat, a primary purpose design to win the solo-rec class in the 90-miler.

For Glenn…

– Last Updated: Mar-03-14 4:07 AM EST –

Rapidfire, Kringelfieber, 2010: definitely NOT a pack canoe!

http://bit.ly/1lue8hd

Kayaks
This reminds me of kayak people that come to my annual solo Canoeapoluza to get introduced to solo canoes,and say they will switch to a dubble blade pack type canoe so they will now be paddling a canoe?

Turtle

Explain

– Last Updated: Mar-03-14 1:59 PM EST –

Turtle;

Please elucidate the significant differences between your Vagabond/Kestrel canoe and RapidFire. Agreeing with Lazerfield and Morris that numeration sharpens our thinking process, I'll provide specs, from the designer, to help you clarify and promote your thoughts.


lengths: Vagabond 14.7' RapidFire 15'

widths:
Vagabond 25.5"rails, 27.5"max, 25.5" 4"wl
RapidFire 24" rails, 27.5" max, 24" 3" w/l

Shear:
Vagabond bow 15.5", mid 11.5", stern 14"
RapidFire bow 17", mis 11", stern 15"

Rocker bow/stern
Vagabond 1.25/1.25"
RapidFire 1.5/1

We've seen Vagabonds/Kestrels with low, pack canoe seating and Rapids with kneeling seats, so it can't be that. Is it the four inches in length, the 1.5" narrower rails, the steeper shear and 0.5" difference in midships depth or the differential rocker that makes your Kestrel a canoe and Rapid a kayak?

rapidfire
Actually, I was seriously considering a Rapidfire set up for kneeling when I bought my Kestrel as they seemed extremly similar. I have never seen or paddled a kneeling Rapid,but would like to. I was refering to sit on the bottom boats being considered the same as kneeling canoes. To me there is a world of difference. Around here we have a continous,frendly light side/dark side interchange in which I encourage people to try single bladekneeling solo paddling-hence my annual event. Different strokes.

Turtle

Turtle

Turtle you aren’t making the distinction
between hull shape and outfitting.



Just because you have seen RapidFires outfitted with low seats does not mean they have to be paddled that way; or even with a double stick. My husband pretty regularly paddles it with a bent shaft single even with the low seat.



To be fair when we see a boat or several of the same boat we do get a mental picture–erroneous or not-- of how that boat ought to be paddled.



I know it was a surprise to me to see Osprey outfitted with a sit on the bottom seat.


I agree
With different outfitting the same boat can suit different paddling position preferences.I sold my high seat Savage River Wee Lassie to a gentelmen who couldn’t get comfortable with the high seat and I switched it to a Kayak seat for him. I was atempting to respond to the original poster who wanted a boat with a high seat. This would limit his choices to boats built that way unless he wanted to modify it. I think the prefered paddling position should be the first factor in chosing a solo boat. For me, it’s a very different experience. Also ,for me, when I paddled a Placid Spitfire(a great boat),I could close my eyes and be in a kayak. the definition of a “canoe” or “kayak” can be fuzzy,but one could consider pack type canoes funtionally,open kayaks.I try to encourage newbes to explore all the different positions.

different strokes,Turtle

There is
a really nice Curtis Nomad in the classifieds. :wink: I know, shameless plug…



However, if you are close to Pa. you are welcome to come test paddle the Nomad as well as our Hemlcok Kestrel to get a feel for the two different sizes.



Mike

Just to be clear…
…I didn’t intend to imply that I want a high seat. I always imagine that a sloped seat would be ideal for kneeling. Maybe fitting size 9.5 feet under makes it a high seat? I’m not sure what qualifies.

“high” is relative

– Last Updated: Mar-04-14 2:35 PM EST –

I think the use of the term "high seat" in the last few posts is relative to the very low synthetic pedestals of the type installed in many of the Placid Boat Works canoes, or a polyethylene foam seating pad like in a Hornbeck pack canoe.

The Placid pedestals are intended to place the paddler in a kayak-like seating position just a few inches (or less) up off the hull bottom:

http://www.placidboats.com/outfitting.html

Note that the so-called "high" Placid pedestal places the paddler's sit bones less than 3 inches above the hull bottom.

Most kneeling paddlers find that either a canted seat (with the front frame of the seat closer to the hull bottom than the rear frame), or a canted kneeling thwart is more comfortable than a level seat or thwart. If I am going to be kneeling exclusively I prefer a thwart canted up to 30 degrees off horizontal but many folks prefer less angle, and less is better if you are going to use the same seat for both kneeling and sitting.

Measuring the seat height above the hull bottom is a bit tricky because the vast majority of hulls have either an arched or V shaped bottom. I have size 11 feet. I find that 8 inches of clearance between the bottom of the front of the seat frame or thwart and the bottom of the hull at the centerline is usually enough for me, but if I regularly wore footwear with thick soles and prominent heels I would probably insist on more like 9 inches. Hulls with a deep V, rounded, or deeply arched bottom may require a higher seat to allow adequate heel clearance.

Fitting a Canoe
"Fitting" into a kneeling canoe should include the sitz bones comfortably on the seat and the knees comfortably spread into the chines. Folks with shorter legs need narrower boats, but seat height and kneepad thickness can be adjusted to improve fit. This can be overdone; a smallish paddler packed into a boat too wide to allow a vertical paddleshaft. Folk with longer thighs can raise the seat in an overly narrow boat to the pint their CG is too high for stability allowed with a relatively narrow knee stance. Either way, the feet need clear the seat pretty easily.



A kneeling seat placement high enough to clear booted feet can be too high for sitting paddlers. Footpegs help improve stability, but solo paddlers need to try their boats, test paddle them, at least when getting into the game.

solo canoe thoughts
I am not an expert, I am puny, just ask CE Wilson. My Placid Rapidfire is an amazing boat. I single blade with it on a sliding seat, there is enough room for me to kneel as well, I double paddle it too. This boat has handled rougher waters than I should have been in. It is stable but will turn easily with a slight lean. Think about a new one. Mine was “used” after one season in my rough rocky mountain area waters. It’s a well built, tough boat…jesse

Placid high seats
Yes, the term “high seat” is very relative. Placidboats offers 3 different bottom mounted molded seats, low, medium and “high”. The medium and high will fit over the permanently mounted low seat. I have all three of those. But I wanted something higher for single blade paddling. Joe removed the glued-in low floor mounted seat for me, and installed the highest rail mounted seat he had, which is minimally higher than the “high” floor mounted seat. But it also has a forward pitch tilt, which is more optimum for racing. With that my back does not touch the backrest at all, which is fine with me. I do wish I had an even “higher” seat for even better maneuverability with a single blade. I am tempted to go back to see Joe with my request for a new boat with reinforcement to support a gunwale hung “high” seat.