I must have been in a surface eddy current close to shore. I drifted N to S
Stephen Herrero’s analysis of documented Black bear encounters seems to suggest that the non-habituated ones are bolder. I also found it interesting that an associate of Herrero, Tom Smith, found bright colors more likely to catch a Black bear’s attention as it is ‘different’ and they are a curious beastie.
Herrero also seemed to feel that cub protection - in Black bears - was not a major cause of attack. Several Black bear encounters documented cubs up trees and the mother running away.
I guess at the end of the day, the bears don’t read books. We can document and generalize behaviors but each bear is a product of his/her experiences and will react accordingly.
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“Some of the same bears? Not likely. In their favored habitats, they can attain densities of one per square mile. That is a lot of bears.”
You are confusing density with range. A Grizzly will have a range of +/- 600 square miles. However, ranges overlap so there may be 10 bears that share some portion of that range. Of course, grizzlies famously congregate at salmon streams where there may be a much higher density than one per square mile for a period of time.
Because of their range my comment was directed more to the coincidental proximity of my area with that of @dcowell65. It is indeed very likely that some of the bears in northern Idaho will also be seen in SE BC.
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A purely anecdotal story but one time I was part of a group doing quite a long mountain bike ride on some forest service roads in the State Game Lands of Pennsylvania. The ride was a long loop and we were nearing the end when we unexpectedly came across a black bear and her three cubs. The cubs all ran up a tree on one side of the trail and the mother ran up a tree on the other side and they all just sat in their respective trees and looked at us. It would have taken until dark to back track around and there was no practical way to detour around the bears.
It was a little while before one of our group was brave enough to ride between the mother and cubs then the rest of us followed. The bears did nothing.
I did however hear a story from a friend I was in Boy Scouts with. He had gone up to Canada on an Explorer Scout camp in a fairly remote area. One of the guys had put foot powder on his feet after a longish day hike. On his way to the latrine at night he was knocked over by a cub that started licking his feet. Momma bear did come along and beat him up a bit to the point he had to be evacuated.
It is rewarding to find a group with experience that knows what they are talking about when it comes to bears. I get tired of the jokes and the discussions that quickly decline into big gun arguments.
Understanding how bears think and avoiding them is really important. Keeping a clean camp is a given. On canoe trips I have run into bears on portages during the day, making dinner, as well as the middle of the night. They are around and we just have to learn to live with them.
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Exactly. I’m often camping or hunting within a couple miles of the border.
Elk, bear, deer, turkey. cougar and more wander freely, but few people do so that’s what makes it great in that area.
Old story but relevant. A fatal predatory attack by a young male black bear on a very experienced outdoorsman:
Oh it happens from time to time. A friend in the Yukon had a friend of his be attacked in the bush… That friend had lived in the bush for years.
It has happened 40 miles from New York City too.
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People need to learn to respect black bears more.
These predatory stories are well documented. It is almost always males, often younger ones.
Take all bears seriously as a possible threat.
Learn to avoid bears and stay away from them.
I have quite a lot of experience with bears from 50+ years of being a hunter and guide in several states. The fact that I was not a paddler at the time would not matter.
Black bears are wide spread and in many state they are quite numerous. Encounters with bears are probably 95% with black bears for that reason. Black bear is the name if the sub-species, but not always the color They can be black, black and white, cinnamon colored, straw colored, honey colored and “blueish” colored. They can be somewhat friendly, comical, shy, scared, and playful be now and then they can be aggressive and they are VERY dangerous is you become the object of their anger. The have hooked claws and can climb very well. They go up trees quickly when they want to and can climb almost as well as a cat.
As was said before the 1st and best way to avoid trouble is to understand how they see the world but also know that all bears can be unpredictable. Bear spray is a good idea to have along and used correctly if usually works, but it’s not 100%. And things like failure of the can, as well as wind and brush can cause spray to be ineffective and sometime you end up “seasoning the meat” by having the spray come back on yourself if you use it incorrectly. Guns are good, again if you are skilled in their use. Unfortunately for my Canadian neighbored they have been disarmed by their government to a large extent. What to do up north in Canada…well alertness is key. But there is no way to do dangerous things in safety. So going into the back-yard of bears is in some ways like going into water in a kayak. You must understand it can be dangerous and if the risk is too great in your mind, don’t go there. I wish there were a pat-answer for this, but there is not and anyone that says there is has not lived in the bush for long.
As a side note, anyone who is not well trained in not just shooting, but combat shooting should understand this truth:
Buying a gun no more makes you into a gun-fighter then buying a guitar turns you into a rock-star. If you can have a gun with you that’s very good, but the gun is a tool. YOU are the weapon ,and if you don’t know how to use that gun well in times of real danger and stress , you are not increasing your odds all that much. The human is the fighter. The gun is just a tool used by the human. If you want to learn to FIGHT with a gun there are many around the USA who can teach you and many (myself included) have done it for 50+ years and I have also TAUGHT FOR FREE many, many times, just to help those with a need to know. Superb levels of gun handling for speed and long rage accurate are all good, and all impressive, but will teach you next to nothing about fighting. Taught correctly gun-fighting is 98% about fighting and 2% about guns. Most competitive shooters do that backwards with the use of the gun being 98% and the understanding of fighting and how your adversary moves begin 2%. Learn to move, shoot, move and also learn to hit moving targets. No animal is dangerous until it can touch you. At 15 to 0 yards (coming at you) most of the shooting disciples taught today become less then ideal.
Grizzlies:
Yes, I have a LOT of experience with Grizzlies. I hunt and live close to the area that was said by US Fish and Wildlife to have the highest number of grizzlies per square mile in the world. More then anywhere in Canada, more then any place in Alaska and more then anyplace in Russia. So far I have never had a confrontation with one. I see 15-20 every year as an average. But I have seen the results (including one Bear VS man) about 50 times. They are truly amazing in what they can do and how fast they can do it.
The grizzly is the same bear by DNA as the Brown, the Coastal Brown and the Kodiak, the difference being location and physical size. The less they sleep in winter and the more they eat, the larger they get. An easy abundance of food makes them less aggressive, not more. The Mountain Grizzly is the bear of legend when it come to attacks on man. The reason is competition for territory, which in the mind of a bear is the ownership of the food bank. The big coastal brown bears have so much food they get huge, 2X larger then Mountain grizzlies. But the Mountain Grizzly knows his food is not going to be easy and abundant. He doesn’t want to loose any. THAT’S why they are more aggressive. A 550-650 pound Mountain bear is far more likely to face you down or attack then a 1400 pound Kodiak. And at 500 pounds they are less then 1/2 the size of horses, yet in 150 yards and less they can run down a horse and kill it. That’s no joke either. It’s 100% true.
REAL BIG Wyoming Grizzle boars are 700-800 pounds Most are in the 450 range and I often see big boars in the 550 to 600 pound class. Average sows are 375 to 425 pounds. Mountain Grizzlies of 700 to 800 pound are very rare but they do exist. In 30 years of hunting and/or guiding elk and moose hunters in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana I have seen only 2 that I would guess to weigh about 800 pounds. One was at about 15 feet from me. A bear that big make your eyes wide, trust me about that. My size 9-1/2 boot fit easily inside it’s rear track with some of the toes and all the claws still showing in the mud.
Females with cubs are the very worst. Cubs are very curious and playful and get into areas just to go see what’s there. If “what” is you, and mama comes up behind her cubs, you are in real trouble. NEVER allow a cub to get around you and be SURE you make large non aggressive movements and some noise so the cubs stop and look instead of running ahead . If you get between a mother bear and her cubs you are asking for trouble the likes of which most people can’t even imagine. That goes for both Blacks an Grizzlies. Species matters not at all with mother bears.
Black bears are smaller and far more numerous. Grizzlies are larger, faster and more powerful The old saying among mountain hunters is "A black bear is more likely to bite and claw you. A grizzly is more likely to kill you.
Neither is good.
Learn what to watch for and be aware of your surroundings. Combat vets from the military can be your friends in learning how to be aware. They KNOW what that means. Make friend with some and pick their brains. If vets know you have reason to ask (and are not prying into their past for the reason of your personal entertainment) most are very willing to teach and talk to you. Threats with bears are seldom seen until 'it’s game on". But reading the warning signs and understand the use of concealment to move (remember, bears are predators, so they move many times like a hunter) you can learn what to look for, and be far more likely to see the danger signs. At times it not something you can avoid 100%, but knowing where the danger is likely to come from reduces the changes of real harm a great deal.
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I don’t have any new advice to add, but I do have a few stories.
I could tell numerous accounts of bears leaving when they have seen me sometimes running off.
We enjoyed hunting near Salt Spring FL when some land first came open to public hunting. One guy told us he was sitting in his tree stand eating a chicken dinner he had bought at the local convivence store. Why you would do that while hunting beats me. Anyway a black bear came up to the tree and started to climb it. He threw the box of food at it and the bear went down ate it and left. The guy said he would never hunt there again, and advised us not to. We have seen numerous black bears in FL, and a few with cubs. They try to avoid us. Moral: don’t eat a box of fried chicken, potato wedges and coleslaw in the woods. Probably not a good idea to eat smelly food before going into woods with black bears either.
Another time many years ago backpacking in the Smoky Mountains on our last night. We retired to the tent. Their were four of us. This was the first encounter any had with a bear. This was way before bear spray had been invented. We hear pans falling from the bear pole where our food was hanging rushed out to see a pack on the ground, as we approached the pole a young (about a 100 pound) bear dropped from the top of the pole and ran off a ways, but didn’t leave and watched us.
There was a wooden bridge near the camp site over Big Creek. We took our packs and hung them over the rail on the bridge with the bear watching us. They could not be reached from the bridge or the water. We then walked off but stayed to see what the bear would do.
The bear walked out onto the bridge looked over the side and pulled the packs onto the bridge like a fisherman with a handline. tow of us rushed toward the bridge, but stopped short when the bear didn’t run off this time. I had approached from the creek side not the trail, and threw a big rock up on the bridge landing and making a big noise beside the bear. Startled by the rock, and facing two men the bear ran to the other end of the bridge.
All of us went onto the bridge with the bear watching. This time we we tied the rope around one of the planks in the middle of the bridge. We then let the packs swing down hanging under the bridge with the rope out of reach.
We then left the bridge and watched to see what the bear would do. It walked onto the bridge and looked over the rail. Next it walked around under the bridge looking at the packs. It then walked back up and crossed the bridge leaving us alone. They are smart and capable od reasoning.
We told the ranger what had occurred when we walked out the next morning, and that the bear pole was a bad joke. He said he knew they had a problem bear there and thanked us for the info. Over the next number of years that we happed to camp at the same site would found several different iterations for handling food. The first time after our bear encounter we found iron rings place on the bridge planks for hanging our food. The next iteration of food handling was an iron box. The last time we were there it was a wire between two big tree with pullies and wire to hang the food.
I have been stalked twice by mountain lions while calling elk at dusk during archery season. and seen a few more. Those are other stories. Only one did I have to actually run off with a couple of gun shots. I didn’t shot that cat, but would have if it hadn’t run off after the second discharge of my 45. I started carrying it after the first time I was stalk by a big cat.
Three species of bears in North America.
black Ursus americanus
brown Ursus arctos
white Ursus maritimus
Can you provide a reference for this? I’m assuming since you’re in Wyoming you are talking about Yellowstone, or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, which is just over 3400 square miles. Latest 2021 estimates that I’ve seen has an estimated grizzly population of around 1000 bears. Kodiak Island is slightly larger (just over 3600 square miles), but has an estimated brown bear population of over 3500. Admiralty Island is just over 1600 square miles and has close to 1800 brown bears, with nearby Chichagof Island having an even higher density.
I’m not saying there’s not a lot in your area, but the densities are far surpassed by other places. Higher than Canada maybe, and most likely higher than Russia due to the rampant poaching, but not Alaska. That being said, I completely agree that inland grizzlies generally pose a greater threat to people than coastal browns. I’ve spent 20+ years guiding on the Alaska Peninsula and Kodiak Island, and have had run-ins of more than 25 on some single days. This is a good map, from an excellent article that was produced by COSEWIC in Canada a few years ago (Species at Risk Public Registry - COSEWIC Assessment and Status Report on the Grizzly Bear Ursus arctos in Canada – 2012).
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Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the B.C. Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function to take extra precautions while in the field.
We advise the outdoorsman to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advanced warning to any bears that might be close by so you don’t take them by surprise.
We also advise anyone using the out-f-doors to carry “Pepper Spray” with him is case of an encounter with a bear.
Outdoorsmen should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear scat has bells in it and smells like pepper.
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I spent part of two years working on the coast of the Mainland of SE Alaska, which would be one of the areas shown in dark red above. Much of the time, we were working around salmon steams. Seeing coastal browns was a daily occurrence. Black bears were very common.
The way to get along with bears is to avoid them. Make noise and let them know you are coming. Watch your backtrail. Keep your eyes on a swivel, even when working. When you lock eyes with a bear at 50 yards in the deep forest, look away, make a retreat. Do not press them and leave them a way out. The more you can learn about bears the safer you will be.
Ptivkner, I doubt I can find the information now. It was posted by US Dept of Fish & Wildlife in 1990. It’s very old info. But I can speak to the way the statistics above were reached to some extent;
First, the US Dept of Wildlife was making that statement about not just the parks but all the grizzlies that are around the parks for about 100–150 miles south, south east and east of the boundaries of the national parks (Yellowstone and Teton) (since then the bears have moved north in Montana a lot too)
Add to that the fact that they separate the Mountain Grizzly from the Costal Brown Bears. So they were claiming that for GRIZZLIES, the parks and the surrounding areas in Wyoming had the highest concentration of bears on earth --of that “sub-species”.
The biologists (even some within Federal Fish an Game) objected because they say the DNA of the Grizzly, the Browns and Kodiaks are all the same. Location and diet are the only real differences.
But divided up in any way you’d like, there is no argument that we do have a LOT of bears here.
I hunt elk every year, and have for several decades and it’s not uncommon for me to see more Grizzlies on a given day then elk. When you find elk you often find herds of them. but you can go days and never find a heard. You NEVER go for days without seeing grizzly bears around those mountains. What makes you watch your back and be VERY alert is the fact that if you see 3-4 grizzlies a day, you have to wonder how many you didn’t see.
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Discussion often drift toward grizz. Black bears are formidable. Never under estimate them. They have equpment and they are really smart. They can sense your fear. They will mess with you. A few will view you as prey and you don’t know what order they come in.
I live in Nevada. We are having a drought and some bad fires. We have black bears now in the neighborhoods around the Valley. I saw a culvert bear trap being towed behind a truck last week. Use a headlamp when you go out at night in your yard.
Ppine, I have friends and family in Carson City, Washoe Valley, Reno and Smith Valley. All of them are telling me about the bears coming down from the mountains into the towns and neighborhoods.
From what you wrote above I might assume you are near one of those places too.
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szihn,
Howdy. Yes. Bears are in the neighborhoods after the drought and major fires. I saw a culvert bear trap behind a Dept of Wildlife truck the other day. There was a cub rescued in the Tamarack Fire near the house. He had burned paws and was in rehab but he quickly escaped and went back to the wild.
This week I was out walking behind the house on BLM land and played cat and mouse with a wild horse for about 20 minutes.
We may know some of the same people.
I wish this sight had a PM option
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