Looking to upgrade my paddle

Yes, you should rinse even if paddling in fresh water. Sand and other small particles can get into the ferrule. Werner doesn’t differentiate between salt and fresh when it advises to take the paddle apart and rinse with fresh water after every use.

They’re expensive paddles. For me, it’s worth it to take a couple of minutes to clean out the ferrule on my Cyprus. Cheaper than having to ship the paddle back to Werner for repair, which I had to do once because the spring in the ferrule was defective (they sent me a new paddle).

Pretty sure you could find inexpensive clips that screw into a wall for the paddle.

Thanks.

Would something like this work for hanging paddles?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-2-28-in-Gray-Steel-Utility-Hook/50218525

The Ikelos is rather unforgiving. When I upgraded from the Shuna, it took me some time to get a clean bite with the Ikelos.

To avoid the flutter and lack of bite, it is important to keep a good upper body rotation where you also slide the paddle sideways out from the boat during the stroke and keep a good push with your upper hand.

Allan’s point helps in addressing what’s going on. Biomechanically you’re likely pulling with the biceps too much (arm paddling)

Think of the water piling up on the power face of the paddle. If it has no directed escape it will pour off one side till the pressure is released and build again till it needs to our off a side again. Flutter like a spoon type fishing Lure.

Think of the blade as a wing with a leading edge (flowing molecules hits first) and trailing edge. With body rotation to power the paddle rather than pulling the paddle through the water the path of the paddle relative to the boat is at an angle away from the kayak rather than parallel. This makes the blade(wing) fly away from the hull making the top edge of the power face the leading edge throughout the power phase of the stroke giving the water a continuous escape route off the bottom trailing edge. Result should be no flutter, longer period of resistance in which to propel the kayak past and an easier exit point (which can add more speed but I’m already at limit for typing with my thumbs)

Forward Stroke Refinement is a whole lot easier to teach in person than type.

Have fun with your new paddle and your homework is Go Kayakkng!

See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
9 W. Market St.
Hyde Park, NY
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Main: www.the-river-connection.com
Store: www.the-river-connection.us
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As a newb I find this advice easiest to understand and follow: to make sure to push with the opposite hand on the paddle shaft, instead of just pulling on the paddle with the water side hand. Dunno if this will help you but it has me.

You might want to try paddling without the feather (blades aligned in the same plane) just to see how that feels with the new model. I think it is more intuitive and easier to push on the the opposite hand when your wrists are not cocked at an angle, which they have to be to get the blade in the best position when the blades are offset.

I have not used feathering since the first few weeks I owned a touring kayak 17 years ago and I know far more people who use them without feathering than do, though that is a completely legitimate personal choice if it feels right to you. Feathering has some benefits in windy conditions and paddlers racing for speed using a high angle often use it.

In general, offset blades are more characteristic of paddles for whitewater because they can help you power through quick directional changes. A feathered paddle can be fatiguing on long trips because it does put more stress on your wrists…

One trick I was taught to ensure pushing not pulling is to open the pushing hand. If you try to pull with the top hand open you might find the paddling leaving your hand. It is a good way to ensure pushing.

@greyheron said:
Would something like this work for hanging paddles?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-2-28-in-Gray-Steel-Utility-Hook/50218525

Absolutely.

When I got my first Werner, I also noticed the “flutter”. I don’t think it is exclusive to Werner paddles. It goes away when you let the paddle center itself; don’t fight it. I think it is very helpful to concentrate on pushing the out-of-water blade. Pulling the in-water blade happens without thought.

Werner’s instructions on maintaining the paddle are right on, but I have to admit that I never do anything except keep the paddles clean and have never had a problem with any of them.

@magooch said:
When I got my first Werner, I also noticed the “flutter”. I don’t think it is exclusive to Werner paddles.

Correct. It is more or less supposed to happen if you are moving the blade perpendicularly to the water.

Beginner paddles often have dihedral blades to prevent this. They give the water an “escape route” towards both edges of the paddle, so they will feel stable, even when paddled this way. But those are less efficient. So perhaps the OP’s old paddle was dihedral.

I often notice a little flutter when I switch from my Werner Cyprus to my Greenland Paddle. Of course it goes away as soon as I realize I need to relax my stroke a little.

I always rinse my carbon fiber paddles off with fresh water and apply some 303 protectant a couple or so times a year. After 5 years my Cyprus - and my wife’s - still look brand new.

I keep my good paddles in a paddle safe in my temperature and humidity controlled wine cellar after I bath them and apply conditioner!

@Allan Olesen said:

@magooch said:
When I got my first Werner, I also noticed the “flutter”. I don’t think it is exclusive to Werner paddles.

Correct. It is more or less supposed to happen if you are moving the blade perpendicularly to the water.

Beginner paddles often have dihedral blades to prevent this. They give the water an “escape route” towards both edges of the paddle, so they will feel stable, even when paddled this way. But those are less efficient. So perhaps the OP’s old paddle was dihedral.

Could be. This was my last one:
https://aquabound.com/products/manta-ray-hybrid-2pc-posi-lok-kayak-paddle

I think the blades are indeed dihedral?

I do push with my other hand, and tend to open it, too, but I will make a more conscious effort to do this. Also, I will try to do like everyone said, and not pull it straight back through the water. I’m sure it’ll just take some getting used to. I’ve been using my AquaBound for over 4 years now, so probably have tens of thousands of strokes that have formed muscle memory. I only put about 5 miles on this new Werner so far, but looking forward to using it more. Awesome paddle!

Yes, that Manta thing surely looks dihedral.

One thing, which helped me: I started paddling with a Greenland paddle. After a few weeks of high angle paddling with the GP, it felt much easier to get a good bite with the Ikelos.

The Greenland paddles are even more unforgiving towards a wrong paddle stroke. But they also give more usable feedback. So when the Ikelos was just yelling to me “You are not treating me right!”, the Greenland paddle told me “I want to be treated this way instead of what you are doing now.”

(No, I don’t have the videos to prove that conversation. But I remember that the Ikelos had a female voice and the GP had a male voice…)

Funny, my new GP has a female voice whereas my Werner has a male voice, go figure!

Go to the menu and select the voice you like…

“The Greenland paddles are even more unforgiving towards a wrong paddle stroke. But they also give more usable feedback. So when the Ikelos was just yelling to me “You are not treating me right!”, the Greenland paddle told me “I want to be treated this way instead of what you are doing now.””

When I borrowed my Daughter’s Onno mid-tour for the 2nd half of a 50 miler it was more like being rapped on the knuckles by a tough teacher. “You will place me into the water this way only. You will stroke this way only. You will remove me from the water this way only” When you disobey you will be punished." Once I learned to obey we got along well.

I’m still enjoying the Ikelos, but still getting a bit of wobble/flutter while pulling it back through the water. It could very well be my technique, but my AquaBound did not do this. I know it could take weeks or months to adjust, but then I’m past the return window. I’m wondering if maybe I should exchange this for something else. Any other models or brands that would be less prone to this wobble?

I’m also wondering if the foam fill and the added buoyancy is messing with me? My other paddle didn’t have this.

i think the problem is almost certainly your technique.

Google up some forward paddling videos or better still take a lesson with an instructor.