Low/high brace question

WW park

– Last Updated: Oct-08-15 2:15 PM EST –

You're lucky to have one so close. You might try studying it by watching other boaters there and walking along its length. That is what I did at the park in CO that was a little more than 30 minutes from my old home.

I watched them at various water levels, read about it in sites like mountainbuzz (but beware the macho bluster that appears fairly often), and took an intro lesson that REI offered, which included use of all gear.

Actually, I took the lesson first, then let 4 yrs lapse while I waited for an appropriate WW kayak to be made for my size, since I don't like wide boats. Then I watched and walked, and gave it a shot after the high, strong spring flows had subsided. Perfect for learning basics in moving water. It was a relatively safe environment, with good access, police station nearby, plenty of walkers along the trail, and more than one decent place for a newbie to just work a short section over and over again.

Just be careful to choose lower-flow days that still create eddies, and watch out for the fareaking idiot toobers who plague the place in summer.

Gotta love the WW afficionados

– Last Updated: Oct-08-15 1:47 PM EST –

It's a beautiful park, pikabike, at the outskirts of downtown Petoskey. Wonderful trails for walking and bikes on both sides of the river. A couple of overlooks built high above the river. Also popular in the fall when the salmon run starts. I've seen WW guys on the water in May, during their annual gathering, but not seen boats any other time I've stopped to walk along the river. Bad timing, probably.

I'm not adverse to trying WW at some point, but first I want to become competent in the paddling I love best: coastal touring. Getting my brace to be a reflex action is just as doable in a touring boat as a WW boat. If I can't find the right conditions in the next few weeks, I'll try to organize some fun and games with the pool paddlers this winter.

I did try Marshall's suggested sweep exercises tonight. Tentatively at first, but then it turned out to be the most fun I've had this summer trying something new. I've done a lot of practice holding an edge, but always with my paddle in a low brace position. Feeling that light support on the water was a confidence builder - and I could brace off it. A great instructor makes a world of difference.

Good point,
Clyde, but I’m such a rookie I’m just starting to develop opinions - and have already changed a couple.



It’s a watery path I’m having fun following, to see where it will take me.


river mouths
If you want to get a sense of the relative unpredictability of whitewater (to some degree anyway), try a river outlet that has a decent flow.

Attitudes

– Last Updated: Oct-08-15 2:19 PM EST –

The differences I noticed between "regular paddling" and that at the WW park were these:

1. Many guys practiced often, during lunch time or after work. I mean they were there frequently enough I could tell who did this as a routine. This frequency was not like what all but a couple of sea kayakers in that area did. Probably a function of being in a state where longboat kayaking was not popular.

2. Many of the WW kayakers treated capsizing as a fairly normal occurrence, not some rare dreaded thing. It's a good mindset to have, because it is incentive to get the bracing and rolling down cold. And still expect that there will be something that gets you, sometime.

3. For me, a huge mental shift came with the immediate realization that there was precious little time between each water feature. No time to tnink about anything else except what was coming soon. This is where walking the creekside trail at the start of every session became top priority. Water behaviors and levels could change very quickly, since it was affected by snowmelt AND remote cloudbursts AND sometimes artificial manipulations upstream. There is no spacing out allowed.

BTW, some parks are known for being more or less beginner-friendly; ask around about that for your park.

Oh, and Rookie...I only bought the WW boat and went to the park to practice moving-water skills because at the time I was far from the sea. Turned out to be a lot of fun in its own right, and scheduling shuttles was unnecessary. I could either eddyhop upstream or get out and carry the boat back to my starting point. Now, I really wish I still had that park around!

Ferry trails
Not the wakes, but the water that is all disturbed and swirly after they have just departed or arrived at the terminal. The smooth-looking swirls can be the ones that will swing a bow around, even with the kayak moving quickly through.



But don’t get too close to the ferry itself.

Consequences
Nice thing about a ww park, and also class 2-3 ww in general, is if you go for a swim you can scramble out on the bank pretty quickly and recover from there.

Coastal touring gets serious in that if it’s tricky enough to toss you, might be even trickier to recover. Hopefully you’re with a good group of folks who can get you back in your boat quickly.

Like you said, muscle memory
is key. I found the best way to develop effective bracing was to paddle parallel along a beach with small waves coming in. Start out with small waves and anticipate the wave and brace. As you start to feel more comfortable, do this with a little bit bigger waves and don’t watch the waves, just brace as needed. It’s a very fun and safe drill that will teach you effective bracing.

Valid point
You want to have your body leaning into, and curved, during the brace. If you allow the boat to lean too far as you brace, the brace will feel “soft.” When the pressure on the paddle that holds you up begins to lessen, you will capsize into the wave.



Did this a few times when starting out and found the tipping point of my boat was when it reached beyond 75 degrees of lean - there was little chance of recovery without a strong hip snap and bit of draw on the paddle to get the boat more solidly under my butt. By keeping the boat under my bottom and curling into a C shape, the brace was strong, effective, and very easy to recover from.



Rick

funny story
Last summer I paddled on Lake MI with a very accomplished ww paddler. We were trading stories as we paddled, and calling each other crazy.

Solo for the most part

– Last Updated: Oct-09-15 11:21 AM EST –

I pay close attention to the marine forecast, water temperature, and don't paddle a mile offshore. Always wear my PFD (even during pool practice). Because I am solo, I'm cautious. Always leave a float plan with family, my USCG app is open on my cell, and 911 is on speed dial. Will carry a VHF/DSC next season on the big lake.

In checking the water temp this morning, it's now 58F. Small craft warnings are up and the Sunday marine forecast reads 30 kt winds, waves 5 to 8+ That's rowdy. I don't have a drysuit so I'm off Lake Michigan for the season.

While I joined two paddling meet-ups last year, one has done zip events and the other is made up of rec kayaks paddling only placid rivers midweek. Maybe I should start a meet-up for touring boats?

Yes, if you fall out on a river you can generally get to shore quickly (provided you don't get bounced off the boulders in the local park). Whitewater requires a WW boat, another paddle, skirt, helmet, possibly a different PFD, and then trying to find a qualified instructor. Even buying used, that's money I rather direct to a longer touring boat.

I know that with some work on the technique suggestions made here, my brace will become reflexive in my current boat. Work is play in a kayak.

Thank you for the cautions.

Thanks, Dong!
Sounds like a good plan for the weekend conditions - on Charlevoix or Walloon.


practice
A good WW practice setting for me is a hole or feature just above a quiet pool. You go into the hole knowing that you will eventually capsize, but not exactly how or when. The pool gives you time to safely try something else if your roll doesn’t work on the first attempt.



In a touring kayak, paddling parallel to small breaking waves is a good suggestion for brace practice. Crossing small steep waves at shallow(close to parallel) angles can also cause interesting boat motion…



My default reflexive brace seems to be the “low” high brace – elbows down and in, hands at shoulder level. The low brace gets used mostly for turns.

Do You Roll?
Learning to brace and roll at the same time is a smart thing. (My humble opinion). The ‘head dink’ thing looks pretty weak after Eric Jackson shows you how to plop your whole body in the water and come right up. There might be an indoor pool near you for winter roll sessions. Take a look.

Ejs advanced bracing segment
is debated in my parts. It’s impressive in the pool and can help you finish a roll. Very old school. You’re wide open, subject to injury with the head back so not the way to go in shallow situations.



In fact I’ve seen a real emphasis on high bracing with the body and head centered over the boat- toward the middle or forward position. Rather than back behind the seat with the head dinking out over the water. EJs looks far more impressive, and will help you finish a roll, but could lead to some injury in a rocky situation.



As important as paddle placement is, I think understanding how to get your weight into the oncoming crashing wave and getting your bow pointed the right way (so you’ll get kicked off rather than flipped) is just as important as what you do with the paddle.



I agree that if you want to progress you don’t want to become to reliant on bracing. I used to be a float and brace kind of guy and it limited my skill progression.

For Me
the real value of that EJ brace is that it gets you comfortable learning to roll. It also helped me learn how to scull and get a lot of lift out of my paddle. I adapted his moves to my sea kayak. Shallow and rocky isn’t near the issue as with whitewater.

me too
I am also not enamored of Jackson’s lean back roll technique. It obviously works very well for Jackson and it can certainly make Jackson’s type of whitewater play boats easier to roll up.



Jackson whitewater kayaks in particular tend to place the paddlers thighs in a splayed out posture with a lot of bend in the knees. This necessitates prominent “bumps” in the front deck of the kayak to accommodate the paddler’s knees and creates a thick “slab” on the side of the boat in front of the kayak. This can make it hard for the paddler to wrap around the boat and leaning back tends to place the upper torso back where the boat is not so tall at the side.



Obviously, any roll that consistently works is good, but most sea kayaks are not set up anything like Jackson whitewater K1s. I prefer trying to at least initially teach paddlers to come up without leaning back. Even if the water is not shallow, the finish position does not place the paddler in the optimal position for a forward stroke.

Nope, not a roller.

– Last Updated: Oct-10-15 8:05 PM EST –

Last year I had no interest in learning to roll. While I still think the most important thing is to get back in your kayak, not how you do it, after an afternoon of practicing capsizes and re-entries (scramble as well as heel hook with paddle float) this summer, I started to reconsider. Truthfully, there was a moment when I thought, "this is really stupid."

During pool practice last winter, a couple of people offered to teach me although they couldn't complete a roll in the pool and mentioned they never tried one outside of the pool. My response was the truth: I wasn't ready.

If I do start the learning process, it will have to be from someone I trust because of the potential injury factor.

There's a three-day paddling symposium next June in the thumb area of Michigan. I plan to attend and rolling is on the menu so that's a possibility, depending on who is teaching it.

yeah, and here’s where it
gets really funky, that’s pretty much how I roll, head back, sweep, dink and brace up. Hard to break old habits from the 80s. As I’ve gotten older, fatter. and less flexible the back deck is pretty much my friend underwater when rolling, definitely easier to get up back there and I’m trying to work all this out for a combat roll, hit 9 pool sessions this year- 1h20min each way to the pool. Only 35 minutes to the river and I’m usually much more motivated to go there but force myself to the pool.



One person whom I really respect talks and demonstrates tucking your head on your shoulder, your body is bent over the center line of the boat while you brace. I haven’t gotten that refined with it, but make no mistake the technique is a good bit different than getting out over the water and head dinking. It feels a bit awkward, isn’t showy and your limited on where you can place the stroke. The emphasis is on keeping the weight over the midline of the boat.

a couple of folks that i paddle with

– Last Updated: Oct-10-15 8:27 PM EST –

recently went and paid for some ww instruction from Endless Rivers. Their instructor quickly told them that their paddling ability had overtaken their rolling ability. He was also pleased they hadn't developed a lot of bad paddling habits. So I was pretty happy that when they got to somebody who really knew their stuff that they didn't have to be retaught a bunch of stuff.

I had made no attempt to work on their roll with them since I struggle a bit with that myself. The thing is, a roll is such an important self rescue tool. So get someone good and let them teach you and your paddling world will get a lot larger and you can be much more aggressive learning to brace.

Some people learn to roll first and then paddle. I teach people to paddle and hope they will seek someone out to work on the roll.