Most skis and K1s offer better leg-drive simply because they are more ergonomically sound. There's usually no reason why you can't make some outfitting changes to enable a full leg drive in most touring kayaks, unless, perhaps, you have an ultra-low volume Greenland "roller".
Even my low-volume Anas Acuta with an ocean cockpit has enough room to allow me to get my heels and knees together for a strong torso rotation and leg-drive.
The biggest issue that I see is that many touring kayaks still use the small "postage-stamp" sized foot pegs (Yakima style) that are completely non-ergonomic and don't allow you to get your heels and knees together when you want to go fast. These are garbage IMO. The splayed-out "frog leg" position that most touring kayaks put you in is really only good for stability and kills much of your torso rotation.
The original Yakima pegs are well-built (not to be confused with the cheap plastic copies), and do make it easy to put bulky gear in front of your feet, but that's about their only positive attributes.
An Epic 18x is a good example of a much better footbrace. Wide, angled, and spanning the full width of the kayak.
For most kayaks this can be addressed by either going with a foam bulkhead or a full-length retrofit (ONNO makes a carbon footbrace that attaches to Yakima-style footpegs). This gives you options. You can splay out your feet (whitewater style) when you need stability or put your heels together, with high, close knees when you want to "put the hammer down" and rotate fully.
If you do go with a full-length foot-bar, ensure that you don't create an entrapment hazard; that either a foot cannot slide under/over it or that it will release when you pull your foot back. Full-length foot-bars were commonly used on some touring kayaks back in the 80's, but my understanding is that several deaths from entrapment (pearling, hitting bottom and getting a foot forced under the bar) caused the unfortunate trend toward the current, small, Yakima-style foot pegs.
If your seat prohibits torso rotation, consider a replacement. Foam seats are comfortable and give you a good "grip" for rough-water play but make leg drive/butt rotation difficult due to friction. Some "tractor" seats with complicated shapes (center ridges, etc) also make rotation difficult as compared to a "bucket" seat.
There are some tricks that racers often do, such as wax their seat pan, or sit on thin plastic shopping bags, that allow for greater rotation, but wouldn't be the best thing if you are out surfing and playing in rock-gardens (where you would slide right out of the cockpit), so these modifications need to be based on common-sense and your goals.
V8 and loving it Traded in a Nordlow for V8 at the beginning of last year and never looked back. But I’m not a camper, just a paddle for fun person. I paddle for exercise and fun: would rather be on the ocean paddling than a road riding a bike.
The Nordlow is a great boat, and the best of all the sea kayaks I have owned. It’s a Valley, so designed for any conditions and build beautifully. It was far more capable than me.
I found the V8 to be an easy transition. It’s as stable as my Nordlow standing still and paddling. It’s just as seaworthy, for me, but I don’t paddle in conditions many here do. 2 - 3 foot waves for me. I’ve never rolled in unintentionally.
Speed is not an issue for me. I’d say my V8 is a little faster at a normal pace than my Nordlow. But i can sprint with the V8 when I want to, and get up to 6 to 6.5 mph.
For me, the V8 represents safety. I can’t roll (bad shoulder), and was concerned about getting back in a sea kayak in conditions. I could do a paddle float in calm flat conditions, but knew that would be difficult in waves, currents, etc.
I never rolled my Nordlow unintentionally, and the boat could handle anything. But in my head I knew eventually I would find my self needing to get back in the boat in conditions I knew I would be unable too.
So although I had the utmost confidence in the boat, I had this just below the surface nagging concern, and that I believe held me back a little.
The V8 is a no brainer to get back on. A little practice and you can get back on in seconds, between waves. That knowledge has given me greater confidence, and as a result I have gone places with my V8 I would not have done with my Nordlow.
The V8 has also greatly improved how frequently I paddle. At 36 pounds I can load this on and off, and carry it to the water greater distances, all in one trip, with ease. Compare that to over 60 pounds of glass boat, with hatches, seat, etc. I had to at times psych my self up for carrying the Nordlow, and plan more on where I could park.
Getting used to a ski, I found, comes in a few places.
First, you can’t brace with your thighs and knees as you can with a decked boat. All you have is hips, butt, and upper body weight to throw around. I had to learn to work with the boat more, shift my weight, and use the paddles. Perhaps the Norlow was good training: the V8 responds to small shifts in weight like the Nordlow, especially sitting still.
Second, a ski is not as maneuverable as a sea kayak, and will not behave the same when you want to explore. These are long boats with little to no rocker. They go straight, and need a rudder to turn. I put the larger surf rudder on mine, which noticeably improved responsiveness and hold in turns. But playing around the rocks would take on a whole new dimension. And one mistake could put a holes in that light weight hull.
Third, you have a rudder hanging down that cannot be retracted. You have to pay more attention to what’s below the surface. I have hit more than a few things. I’ve been lucky, but due to the light weight composites these boats are made from, a hard hit to the rudder can damage the hull where the rudder shaft enters.
Last, that rudder will catch things, like weeds. On a pond near my house, I stopped going as the summer progressed, because the boats cut so many weeds loose that I would be literally dragging 3 feet of green stuff. In the ocean I have learned to scan for an avoid sea weed patches.
Weeds really slow my ski down. Even a few hanging off can act like a parachute on a the old space shuttle.
I never tried a V10 however so perhaps my experiences won’t apply. Hope this is of some help to anyone thinking about a surf ski for non-racing use.
no kidding… I’ve been following this with interest. nebeginner - did you opt for the Performance V8 or the Club? Performance lists at 39 lbs, Club at 35. Curious as to how much difference there is in the build.
Kick up Many shallow water racers add over stern kickup rudders to their surf skis to avoid shallow water or obstructions. I’ve had one of each and liked the kick-up better for the shallow water paddling I tend to do. No surfing here so losing the under stern wasn’t a concern.
Most surf skis actually have quite a lot of rocker, much of it being in the rear I believe, which would make them quite uncontrollable without a rudder.
Racing and water conditions? If you’re serious about racing get the lighter layup. If you’re only going to be in deep water and don’t foresee hitting anything you can get the light layup. If racing isn’t a big deal and you think you might run into things now and again go with the club layup.
… C’mon slushpaddler, come over to the dark side, you’ll love it!
On the issue of fitness; in just the past 6-7 months I’ve seen a substantial change in my body and I’m not referring to weight loss. Paddling with full rotation and focusing on a proper stroke has been like lifting weights. At 44 years old I’ve seen muscles respond like I was 20 again. If you get a ski, I highly recommend spending the time to work on your stroke. You will see benefits beyond just increased speed.
On the issue of layups, I have carbon and would definitely advise getting the glass if you are only interested in fitness. The carbon is VERY delicate.
My heart rate goes up a little every time I even think about carrying the ski around.
no racing Thanks. I don’t see myself racing. I’m too old and slow generally. Fitness and fun paddling only for me. Will be mostly in deep water but there’s a lot of rocks where I mostly paddle.
I keep going back to the Epic website and looking at that damn V8…
Performance lay up Got the performance lay up, 35 pounds it says in their web site. The newest version. I figure with the hardware it’s a pound or so more (unless them weighted it with the hardware mounted).
I have lost weight too… I swtiched to wing, bad shoulder was aggravated by traditional paddle. Not the paddle peer se, but probably more my lack of good form, and that you can get away with it (us mere mortals that is) with a a regular paddle.
The wing forces you to use the torso. I have no shoulder pains, no patter how much speed I might want to get. But I can feel it if I get lazy and try to pull it.
I can see\feel the difference when I paddle a few times per week over just walking\jogging. It’s a better work out.
Also, crazy as this sounds, I have a bad lower back. Fell twice, and now it tends to hurt more often than not. Hurt when I paddled my sea kayak. But not so using the ski. Also there are times that after using the ski, the pain is gone for a while, sometimes a few days. Must be some chiropractic thing, hard seat and seat back, rotation, etc.
Used V8s I don’t know where you’re located but there seem to be a fair number of used V8s for sale at good prices. I sold mine this summer for $1500 (with added hatches and kickup rudder) and while I think it should have been worth more I was happy to get it since there are so many others out there for sale as well.
I don’t think they’re for sale because something is wrong with the boat. Rather people are upgrading not long after buying or they’re decided long distance racing isn’t for them. The rivermiles for sale section is a good place to look. That’s where all the MR340 paddlers hang out.
Fitness and fun paddling only for me. Will be mostly in deep water but there’s a lot of rocks where I mostly paddle.