Sorry, I think that is unethical
So you take advantage of the local dealer, let him incur the costs of having a kayak available for you to try and then screw him over by buying online? Does not compute for me.
is it?
is it really if you give him your business by buying the little things and then when you purchase a boat to buy it from someone else? your still giving him business but when your going to buy the biggest thing (the yak) you save money by ordering it online. Besides you can chose your color sometimes and other options you want. I think with an outfitter you get what they got in stock or have to wait for something you want to come in. And BTW my original question was if anyone had done this, not that I wasn’t going to do it, I was just interested to see what people’s experiences were when they ordered one online. ITs not much different from buying a used boat from the p.net classifieds.
Local retailers are overrated
I am new to kayaking. I have rented kayaks three times in the past and finally bought two from a local retailer. I also bought stuff to get my kayak home on suggestion of the retailer. Plus life jackets, paddles etc.
I asked the salesperson if they would show me how to get the kayaks on my vehicle and she said they would. Soon as I took the kayaks outside the sales people disappeard…they said it was against company policy to help me.
Well if this is the help you get from a local retailer when buying over 2000 dollars worth of product from them… I think in the future I will just order stuff online. I will never go back to this retailer to ask about anything related to kayaking as I was pretty mad with the service I got there.
I finally got someone to help me when I said I was going to return the kayaks.
Local Retailer???
This was not a kayak shop…
Tell us who your local retailer was…
A marine store? maybe a big box store…
I strongly suggest…
…that you name that store here.
A few of us can send them an e-mail, and I’ll bet they change their tune.
Cheers,
JackL
the story
I strongly suggest they DON"T post the name of the store. First off we weren’t there. I’ve seen more than enough people willing to bring suit to absolve personal responsibility in an accident and blame the retailer for their driving habits or accidents.
It’s perfectly ok to help someone get a kayak on a roof and suggest ways of tying it down but if the shop does it,who should be liable?
Folks on the forum weren’t there, we don’t know if the purchase was made ten minutes before closing, if the customer didn’t want to buy X tie downs and chose twine/bungies, if it was a packed store and not enough staff, etc., etc. etc.
In my experience only 1% of customers are certifiable nut jobs requiring the utmost care,10% take up about 50% of the work,and the other 49% read the directions.
Been there, didn’t buy there
My experience was with a sporting goods chain and not a kayak outfitter. At the time I was renting with intentions to buy. I didn’t know much at the time and I ratcheted that (plastic Carolina) boat down something fierce. Good thing it wasn’t mine.
I ultimately purchased at a local kayak outfitter. I started out using foam blocks, so my outfitter loaded the boat on the car himself and showed me the right way to do it. When I left the shop, I felt confident that I knew how to properly secure it to the roof.
Lou
One Criteria
What does the shop do for paddling, local, national, international. A shop that truly supports the sport by offering classes, sponors events, paddlers, provides launch facilities, showering facilities, is well worth supporting. Without shops like Aqua Adventures in San Diego; Monterrey Bay Kayaks; Alder Creek and Northwest Outdoor Center, the paddling community would be truly lacking.
Buying ethics
Trying locally and buying online seems unethical if it’s an honest store that tries to deal fairly. The store is offering you something that costs them money at no charge in the hope that you’ll make a purchase. But if a store acts like it doesn’t want my business, I’ll certainly take my business somewhere else.
One area store has built a good reputation by NOT selling people what they think they want until they’ve tried some of the other options.
Do I buy stuff online? Sure – when I find an exceptionally good deal on something the dealer doesn’t stock, it seems foolish not to. And my travel time is worth something. But often the dealer can order what I want if he doesn’t stock it, and the lack of a shipping charge often makes up for at least part of the on-line discount.
self-interest == ethical???
Is it ethical???
is it really if you give him your business by buying the little things and then when you purchase a boat to buy it from someone else? <
Not if you test paddle the boat for free, knowing full well you’re NOT buying from them. At best, rent it for a day to test it instead.
The “free” test paddling is clearly intended for people who plan to buy what fits, THERE, not over the internet.
So what if it’s unethical???
I’m NOT an ethical kind of person. Some shops are unethical to begin with. Why should I presume to be ethical when the other side of the deal is not? On the other hand, when I see a shop that’s clearly doing good work for the paddling community, it’s my SELF-INTEREST to give them my business so they’ll be around when I need them. Ethics have little to do with it.
It’s so simple. If EVERYONE is as smart as you’re. Everyone will be buying over the net. So the local shop didn’t sell ANY of their boats. Will they ever bother to order any new ones for anyone to test paddle on???
By avoiding to pay $5 shipping on a $2 part, you buy local. Good for you in thinking clearly, but that’s not exactly “supporting” the local shop. Without sufficient profit from boat and other more expensive sales, the shop will loss and close. Then, you’ll have no choice but to drive 2 hour one way for a $10 part, or pay $5 shipping for a $2 part. Putting it bluntly, the shop need to make their money off SOMEONE.
Ask yourself if the shop needs YOUR support. If you think there’re enough rich people who don’t mind paying the extra to keep the shop in place, feel free to save money yourself. Just don’t let those “rich” folks in on your secret, though. Because once everyone does the same, the end of the shop will be near.
well
be sure not to worry then, I won’t let those “rich” people in on my secret. End of story right? you sure convinced me:-)
Thats a bunch of BS on bargaining on a new kayak. So what you guys on here are suggesting is when I walk in to my local outfitter and see a new yak with a price tag on it. That I refuse to buy it unless he lowers it. That little 24 year old sales associate that is there is making his minimum wage to get by and has nothing to do with how much the shop decided on how much to price that yak. Its not a used car here. IF u say I saw it this much here they are going to say sorry and walk away.
Let’s talk about retail…
Having been in retail for years and years, let me say that some of this discussion has to fall on the retailer. I don’t retail kayaks, but the internet is part of our life now and most retail stores also have internet shopping carts, or should have if they don’t. Pricing is getting competitive and often the net isn’t that much cheaper.
Retailers who offer strong customer support will offset much of the advantages of the net plus they can and do supplement their incomes offering courses, adventure trips and training. Having friendly, experienced staff–and paying them for it–is a necessity in today’s retail and in today’s economy that’s tough.
But the economy is changing. The internet isn’t going away and those who don’t adapt to it will suffer. Our business has lost a lot of sales to the net because our overhead is way higher than theirs but classes, demos, training and prices competitive enough to offset the costs of shipping have helped. We’ll survive but we will be a different animal when it’s all settled and done.
I bought my kayak from QCC and had no problems with free shipping and no sales tax. But they don’t retail. My previous three kayaks all came from retail shops because I like hands on, especially as I learn. I knew what I wanted when I bought the QCC but ALL of my gear is retail.
There’s no right or wrong here, just change. We in retail appreciate the support of our local businesses but if we want your business then we have to make the changes to keep you with us.
As far as I can see, it’s our problem, not your’s. Enjoy any savings you can find.
Not all on line stores are good
Remember Wyoming River Raiders?
buying online
I just purchased a perception sundance 12 from outdoorplay.com for $521, no tax or shipping. It arrived in about 5 days, and was wrapped very well and in excellent condition. I had already done my research, and new what I wanted, if not I would recommend visiting a local dealer.
satisfied internet buyer
I bought 2 QCC kayaks, at separate times. Both arrived in perfect condition. QCC may be fairly unique in that they are a family owned business, make each kayak to order, and have a great reputaion for service and support.
I would have a different feeling about going in to a local retailer, trying out their kayaks, tapping into their expertise and then going online to beat their price. However, it is always ok to try and bargain. If the sales clerk doesnt have the authority, move up the food chain. A polite request for a discount to move the price closer to an online price is often met with some accomodation. If you are getting some off the shelf brand name kayak, you are not going to get the same level of support from the dealer if you bought the boat elsewhere.
Why did we buy the QCCs? They offered full customizing of equipment and color and the longest “demo” of anyone. Their “cult” following suggested that there were lots of satisfied customers. Last but not least, their price point was at least 20% below others. Buy online if it offers some value. It’s not a good idea just for apparently saving a few $