a hull is a hull
canoe or kayak it doesnt matter. An inside edge plants the bow but an outside edge carves the turn.
The effect of inside vs outside edge is noticeable in all hulls but really pronounced in straight keeled designs where its hard to release the stems.
a hull is a hull
you have the experience.
Tangentially, most of the current canoe and kayak hulls are dissimilar with hard and soft chines. The Solstice hull bears no percentage of form relationship to a canoe hull.
A ‘normal’ straight keel canoe hull, leaning inward raises the stems, leaning outward buries stems…and the gunwale.
A hull for straight away racing speed then leaned inward would force water as >>>>>>/ / on the bow in an upstream to downstream eddy turn
leaning outward there >>>>>>\ allows less friction, raising the bow thus less pressure to go downstream
visualizing the stern over with a force full reverse C stroke in a normal downstream current all sides no eddy…
leaning inside >>>>>>>>>>\ on stern while bow does same but more as the bow is asked to remain ‘stationary’ or with less downstream speed than the stern.
leaning outside >>>>>>>>>>/ produces more pressure at bow to go downstream with current not remain stationary.
thus is all conjectural based on random experience …that is not compared as a series of trails in the same place at the same time.
A difference between ‘normal’ hull and ‘straight away speed keel’ hulls is that when leaned over on a straight course there would be less reduction in wetted area with the ‘racing’ hull than with the “normal” hull. In that with the racing hull there is no hull bellying out supporting a lean over …
applying the >>>>>>>/ >>>>>>>>>>\ logic … against this reasoning ???
You’re pulling muh leg ?
no. Attend a FreeStyle canoeing clinic
I think you are assuming on a river going downstream, entering and leaving eddy, which is not germane to this discussion.
Posts( onside turns with an outside heel) are very quick turns and about the only ones that work at all with straight keeled boats.
for that here…but will experiment.
No, the first attempt at writing the maneuver was without an eddy in the general flow.
Reverse C stroke, stern over n downstream of bow.
The balance if not lean would then be on the outside at some point. With awareness of ongoing hull trim as in >>>>>>>>>>>>/ or <br />
DK The main thing is that You remain
= to large tree trunks… Not / or\ but !
That post isn’t easy
Between sitting, and the short bent shaft paddle, that post isn’t easy. It is a lot easy to do in a shorter boat, kneeling with a straight paddle. It’s a racing skill that I couldn’t master.
Yes not easy
Its harder to counterbalance sitting. But even a little carve helps. For most of us its either theoretical or a bath opportunity.
Anything you can do to help the water hit the bow and cause a carve to the onside rather than a shove to the offside helps.
Polers… do you move forward or back in the boat to attain upstream?
With no significant ledge to climb and only moderate current differential, I tend to keep trim fairly neutral - even in a straight keeled boat like the Penobscot. Easier to keep the hull speed up that way.
Moving back and raising the bow does three things. The obvious are freeing up the stem from the current and avoid water over the bow at the ledge. Also makes the stern tend to align downstream in the current. Oh - the fourth thing is it increases drag.
You want to see what edging does? Watch an experienced poler playing with an upstream ledge. When the bow gets pushed out of line, aggressive edging on the downstream side brings the bow back up into the current - often without any other input.
When I’m going upstream and around a turn, weighting the downstream side is second nature. Minor corrections in the flat&easys are also done often with just a little edging to offside. Edging the inside is for eddy turns and peel outs.
That’s a surfing move.
when snubbing downstream.
is not carve
is reverse C stroke bringing the stern around downstream of the bow.
the move is not a turn, is a pivot. In canoeing I know not ‘pivot’ but pivot it is.
the body motion is not edging as in a carved turn but more motorcycle moving forward n balancing to the appropriate side (s)
so Mr.Ekilson, how were you approaching the ‘turn’ ?
If by carving
you mean leaning into the turn like an eddy turn, that didn’t seem to be the way to turn that long straight keeled J-boat. I could man-handle it around eventually, but that boat just wanted to go straight. Pivot it did not.
I tried doing posts by leaning to the outside of the turn as kayamedic described. On the rear occasion that I felt comfortable on the outside edge, it did seem to turn better. To be honest, racing wasn’t for me, so the boat moved on to a new home. I’m back to shorter boats, more rocker and leaning into the turn.
in English are quagmyric. Polynesian ? my 'pivot' was your experience but your 'pivot' is more Timken
hull evolution to the straight keel racing hull is like the human evo cartoons but in reverse...the straighter it goes the less versatile.
No midsection bulge, no carve. Carve is drag so as the hull is always shimmying around on the bulge, eliminating bulge or belly is faster.
a visual software evaluating current hulls on their way to a completely straight hull would be interesting.
or experience thereof.
The total descriptions here cover the ground. There's prob a professional around trying to instruct.
If the idea of >>>>>\ allowing water under hull works then weight to rear as in a stern position bow up and an inward lean at that time*...and downwind off course...otherwise you're manhandling right off. With the reverse C stroke (s) then draw C stroke draw maybe pinning the bow down with a forward weight movement (lunge).
Anything to avoid that rock with your 27 pound 17' $3500...hell get out n walk !
remeber ! there's an eddy turn in your future.
* a basic stern position experience before falling in .....
Carve is drag?
Reverse C is more drag.
carve is drag ?
carve or edging asks for a reduction in wetted area with the now wetted area acting as a long rudder.
but the design for that increases drag even in a straight line compared to a straight line racing design without any design for edging or carving.
the without any tries eliminating the every instant slightly off straight line, drag occurs caws there’s no perfect straight line action.
but what happens when the recreational paddler moves to an eddy turn or upstream turn for a bow upstream landing…maybe what the OP was or is pursuing.
in carving the water flow against hull is >>>>>>>>>>>/
with >>>> the inside turn, edging/crave then down leaning to your right.
that configuration looks like the flow increases drag pushing the hull over downstream and further into the surface. I doahn know if this is true or not.
I don’t think we’re talking about a marathon canoe here. The GRB Classic XL, which if I am not mistaken is what the OP has, isn’t much different than any other traditional performance solo canoe. Edge it. Get the stems out of the water, and it will turn. Turning upstream means going into the current. Drop the left (downstream) rail to go right. Paddle forward - with turning strokes. Begin the turn early. Simple as that.
Good luck with your reverse stroke going upstream.
OP had a straight hull ‘problem,’ The answers are an approach from straight hullers.
Ecklson had the extreme problem…he bought one. I’m more fortunate, mine were loaners.
reverse stroke done going downstream bringing stern around … as in an eddy turn with a ‘straighter keel’ hull. Common paddling motion ?
Using midship draws always helps 2 keep
keelline from drifting, but strong and compact J-strokes will keep your alignment pretty tight.