My sister and her husband had Loons, at my recommendation. Perfect boat for most of what they did. My only complaint was when they brought them to Maine and went out further.
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Iâve been paddling kayaks for the past 38 years and have owned 13 of them from a long, skinny surf ski to a little Epic GPX and now a recently acquired, lightly used Hornbeck New Tricks canoe. I regard my self as, simply, a paddler.
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I live in the land of rec-kayaks. Thousands of them and only them except for the few canoes I see around. The folks on our river see our OT 10ârec-kayak as a high end kayak with its sealed hatch. My OT solo canoe even though itâs a restomod solo is seen as a curiosity and asked about.
People here paddle $300 or less open top plastic kayaks with zero floatation for the most part and some now are switching to the cheaper SOT models and I see that as a good thing in terms of safety seeing as hardly any adults wear a PFD and almost none have added any extra floatation to their boats.
They have great fun and enjoy lots of drinking while boating and for the most part amazingly they do it without incident. I worry about spring and fall water temps and people not thinking about water flow before heading out. Then there is the short distance to Lake Erie and misjudging the difference between an inland lake and the Great Lakes.
It would be great if these folks would come here and learn a little, but my guess is very few are doing that. The average paddle boater here has zero lessons and little desire to seek more info.
When we do get someone here like I was a little over a year ago or @szihn was a little after that we did get our questions answered and got some help with learning some basics. There wasnât an abundance of similar minded folks to make me feel like this is the place for me. I donât blame the advanced folks for liking what they like and wanting to focus on that. I donât know if I would have stuck around other than my interest in safety and my interest in canoeing. I donât really see much difference in a rec-kayak and a canoe and both are on the margins of this forum.
So IMO the people that need the most help first are not seeking it out and second if they do donât have a good place to find it.
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At my local club we sometimes give guidance on the right boat for the trip - long or short. This summer I was leading a trip on a large salt pond and included a requirement for 14-foot boats. It was a 10-mile trip, subject to wind and waves, and I know from experience that folks in longer boats do better. I had one guy who was quite insulted that I didnât think his 10-foot boat was appropriate. In the end I said he could come, but he opted not to, which was fine with me.
We also have trips on narrow rivers where shorter boats are recommended. At least with our club we are not trying to exclude anyone - just want to make sure that people have the right boat for the trip â long or short.
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I view paddlers in one of three groups. Professional paddlers live to paddle and get paid by sponsors or are members of professional teams. The avid paddlerâs life is arranged around learning techniques and exploring high adventure. Recreational paddlers just go out to enjoy the water. Anyone can move up or down or fit in anywhere they like or be all three.
The difference is the degree of commitment. Your level of commitment or desire to help others has nothing to do with your level of skill. If youâre an olympic champion or regional pro, you may keep your techniques to yourself because you want to remain competitive. Share or donât share, it doesnât matter.
This forum belongs to everyone. Even non-members can read it, which is how I found it. I joined to share as well as learn, because I donât come in contact with many people who share my level of enthusiasm. Of all the people I know, only two share my degree of commitment - my sister and her son. I donât look down on the others I took paddling simply because they donât want to learn more. I have better things to do, but Iâll answer questions and help them if they want to go. You can lead a horse to water, but you canât make it float on itâs back.
What I like to see is that no member or visitor is belittled or made to feel inferior for wanting to remain in a comfort zone. Iâm here to share and learn. Snide comments benefit only the person who utters them, and it makes most others cringe. Be remembered and regarded for your contribution, not your negativity! Obsorb, ignore or contribute as you see fit. You never know when the student will become the teacher. We all started somewhere . . .
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The first time I was on this forum( back when it was P.net) I was a recreational paddler.
Then I worked to become a decent racer in both flatwater and blue water. I designed a built a few boats during that time too.
Now I am back, on part, to help those who, like me, are recreational paddlers looking to be more.
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I think weâre lucky to have the diversity we have even if it doesnât mirror the general paddling population (Iâd love to see more SUP threads). I think many newer paddlers (and some former forum members) just use Facebook. I remember one young poster just saying he finds internet forums cumbersome (too many clicks needed). But in the 25 years or so that Iâve been off and on this forum it has always tried to help newer paddlers that ask for help. I welcome more of any type of paddlers including experienced ones since 99.9999% of them arenât on here either.
I think that part of the perception of attacks on rec kayaks is because they naturally overlap with the subject of safety which has been an emotional subject that attracts a lot of kneejerk judgemental comments as long as Iâve been on the forum. I find the safety topics super valuable but probably the most aggravating.
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This is the second time today I heard facebook mentioned. Iâm an admin /mod on a home improvement forum and we have quite a few pros that spend some time helping homeowners with DIY problems. One asked today what was going on no one seemed to be asking questions about electrical. No posts in like a month. One suggestion is that most people are asking questions and getting in fights or getting bad info on facebook where there are a million people and they are all experts. The reason they go there is because they are already there and it is simple just as you described.
I donât have facebook and have no desire but Iâm also being told information about local paddling and related stuff from someone that is on facebook. Stuff I wouldnât otherwise know.
Maybe forums are going the way of chat rooms and email and talking on the phone even.
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I think you hit the nail in the head. The social media landscape is alot different then it was 20 years ago when this place was in its prime
TomL, youâre right about safety being an emotional issue and a trigger. Once a person makes it clear they reject logical suggestions, the discussion is over.
Thereâs nothing wrong with disagreement. Since I joined last year, I believe some of the contentious topics actually helped improve interactions. Not sure why anyone would think there are too many clicks needed. I touch the app icon. Instant!
Not sure what forums were like 20 years ago, but this isnât bad. Anything a paddler wants to know can be found here. Conflict isnât necessarily the fault of members. Many times a visitor will ask a silly question like âwhat kind of kayak do I need?â, then become irritated because the answer didnât fit a preconceived notion.
Me too. The closer I get to 80 the more rec and less sea I become( and whitewater a distant menory)⌠But I still paddle. . Many my age are on a walker or in a nursing home.
However I find social media less and less social and books better friends.
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I just see Farcebook groups taking over all the smaller forums. Itâs happening to Surfski, paddling, and others.
Personally I hate this. Iâm not on farcebook and I like the cellular nature of a dedicated forum. As mentioned, Facebook is big and open, but that also means lots of idiots that canât be avoided, and i dont want to pollute my brain with the FB feed just to see a nice paddling post.
If you actually go through signing up for a new forum (gasp, 30 seconds of work) you have already shown a higher level of interest and are joining a specific community.
FB Groups are the undoing of many good community forums. I compare this similar to US led Capitalist and Chinese globalization wiping out mom and pop shops so you can buy junk twice as often for half price. (Get that, youâre not actually saving any $ and you lost middle class jobs in thr meantime)
Similarly, Facebook is âeasierâ and bigger and âcheaperâ (effort-to-join wise), but it comes with a cost. Your âsmall town forumâ is slowly dying. Howâs that working out for us now? Not so well I argue.
For that reason, I encourage everyone to shun FB groups to the maximum extent possible (understanding that sometime you may have to use them).
Use site-specific forums for your interests. The community is better and has more to offer, IMO
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We do not race, we own less than 6 boats, we just enjoy the water, the exercise, and do not try to maximize anything about the pastime of paddling.
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Now that I have read some of the earlier replies, which did not open on my screen until I had posted my first reply, aint tech fun??, I see rec paddlers love loons, mine is the best all around boat, and I like it a lot. I do miss my 16 kevlar Wabash Valley, it was fast.
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The road to enlightenment is often bumpy.
With that said, the internet has only respect, decency, and honesty from itâs participants that keep it a place that we all want to be. Trust me when I say we are all either - on the crapper, having our first cup of coffee, our last drink, just finished a good (or bad) paddle when we post here.
Good internet citizens try to: read between the lines, and do not denigrate or intimidate,
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With respect to Facebook, I am an active user. Like anything else, it has its place, and you shouldnât try to make it something that it isnât. 90% of my friends on Facebook are paddling friends or acquittances (some of you here), the remainder is family. Iâm in groups that make it easy to hook up on trips, and it is nice to see what other paddlers are doing. I stay away from political debates and pretty quickly unfollow (vs unfriend) folks who like to post that stuff. Works fine for me, and I would miss it if I didnât have it.
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What is the going salary for professional paddlers? I may consider switching careers.
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Iâm with Doggy Paddler.
How can you tell whoâs been âdriven offâ?
Also, please reference the posts or threads that did the alleged driving.
Enquiring mindsâŚ
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Iâm sure the above question isnt a snear to highlight my ignorance, but if anyone is truely interested in professional âlevelâ kayaking, thereâs to much info to post. Look up kayaking, canoe . . . instructors and guides, and how to get sponsorship, which I consider (right or wrong) payment.
From what I saw posted, top instructor pay isnât bad, if you qualify. There isnât any information that I could find about being paid to paddle. The best chance for sponsorship is to become a top kayak angler, and attract companies willing to give you a kayak or equipment in exchange for endorsements.
Regarding my use of the categories Professional, Avid and Recreational paddlers: âThe difference is the degree of commitment.â As an example, I consider boat and paddle makerâs âprofessionalsâ, because they have special knowledge and skill, and they sell a product, yet the professional, as well as the amatuer, can take the time to stoop to my level and help me. It would be far easier for a person at that level to say, buy my book, or buy my product.
The tireless patience to help another member because of the community bond is why everyone should be thankful for this forum, whether Professional, Avid or Recreational. That also applies to the casual web surfer who comes across the forum and joins because of the content not contention. As with most families, its easy to blow off criticism from someone who is close, due to famiarity or kinship. It would be tragic to drive a new member away because the message got lost in translation. Thatâs a loss for the forum.
If you want to be paid for participating in a sport, youâd probably make more money skateboarding.
Reminds me of a joke: A wife says to her husband, âYou didnât hear a word I said, did you!?â The husband looked up and says, âThatâs a weird way to start a conversation!â Why would anybody drop out of the forum? You never know what will happen.
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