mohawk XL 14…?
it’s got a little more rocker at 3" than the odyssey or solo, but I would imagine it would handle better in C II/III conditions. That’s a likely candidate for my next boat, of course I’m a little biased about mohawk since they’re located in my hometown…save on shipping!
St
The Bob
Hey I start out running in the boat…and I’m a really good swimmer…LOL!
Does that mean I’m a class 3 paddler now?
15-foot Mohawk
– Last Updated: Sep-15-07 9:46 PM EST –
The Mohawk Oddysey 15 is a very different boat than the Oddysey 14. It has less rocker, and is marketed as more of a lake cruiser. Someone reported here once that the 15-foot was a bit of a slug, being not nearly as nimble as the 14-footer yet not all that great of a cruiser. I can't speak to either part of that statement, and suspect that the 15-footer is a decent boat for *casual* lake cruising. Since the 15-footer is longer AND has less rocker than the the 14-footer, and knowing first-hand how the 14-footer handles, I'd stay away from the 15-footer for any river work requiring quick turns.
XL 13
The Mohawk XL 13 is plenty big enough for a 210 lb paddler and is very dry, but it certainly won’t make tracks on the flats.
Are you really sure you want to run class 3 whitewater in something other than a full-blown whitewater canoe?
No I don’t want to run class III at all
anymore but sometimes it’s just there in the way.
Class II+ is a good enough rush for me and we have plenty of it around here.
Make Tracks on Flats?
Do you mean track straight and go fast?
I’d agree with the others who mentioned the Mowhawk WW boats. If you have plenty of Class II+ WW, I’d sure be looking at a WW hull. I assume that you are not talking about long pool/drop water but more continuous WW with a lot of gradient. Makes a big difference. There are some WW hulls that are relatively fast according to reviews. Bell Prodigy X for one.
With the correct application of strokes which are not difficult to learn with practice, some WW hulls can be paddled as straight and fast as some of the “versatile” hulls mentioned in this post. I paddle my Dagger Rival on flatwater sometimes and I have no problem keeping up with those in more “versatile” boats.
Wind is the biggest problem on the flats and just about any boat with high enough sides to do WW will have more problems with wind. Also, sitting on a saddle in one position can get tiresome. But a lot of Class II WW would cancel out any of those concerns for me.
If Class III water is “in the way” you better find something light enough to carry unless you have some good paddling partners to help rescue your butt and retrieve boat and gear. Class III is serious stuff in any kind of open boat.
Yea I’ve been paddling
– Last Updated: Sep-16-07 8:07 AM EST –
40 years or so. I know a little about it. Please don't over analyse the question. That happens a lot around here. See "Sanding Bell center seams".
I do not want a "whitewater" boat, I want a boat that can do some whitewater and still be paddled in the flats without spinning like a top and has at least some tracking ability (Pool and Drop)
I'm too old for continuous white water and have a number of health problems (some actually caused by paddling whitewater amongst other things) that limits me to class II+ maybe a III once in awhile.
There are a few of us old guys out there that still like to get bounced around in the river but want to be able to get out of bed the next day.
Thanks, Maybe I just need to get out and throw some coffee grounds around. Maybe I'll mix them with orange peels this time just for fun...
Apologies to Doc, Jim and whoever posted that all time classic thread about orange peels.
Wenonah Rendezvous
The Wenonah Rendezvous with kneeling pads and bags might fit the bill. Whitewater boats that have a reputation for being fairly fast are the Mad River Outrage, the Mohawk Shaman, the Dagger Rival but I have a feeling that they would be too slow for what you are looking for.
I started out paddling whitewater in a 16+ foot Kevlar Mad River Traveller, a boat patterned on the Slipper which began life as a downriver racer. It had a fair degree of seaworthiness, but simply lacked the maneuverability required to handle anything but straight-ahead drops. I did try running Class 2 to 3 water in it, almost wrapped it several times, then wised up and got a whitewater boat.
It sounds like your intent is river trips where you will run straight-forward drops, and shoulder the boat otherwise. If you could find a used Traveller or Mad River ME they might work. The Mad River Howler was patterned on a slalom racer and was said to be quite fast as well. Maybe a slalom racer like a Mohawk Edge, or one of the Millbrook Boats designs?
Oddesy 14 as a sailing rig?
apparently so, I found some photos posted by Hoz49 on Webshots. Just something to look at for yinz thinking of building such a thing. Looks like a do everything canoe.
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1071831915044879763SQGFzo
http://sports.webshots.com/album/71830944wettaf
Odyssey will do what you are asking.
– Last Updated: Sep-16-07 10:38 AM EST –
I have a Mohawk Challenger, which is the Odyssey's predecessor. The hulls are identical except the Odyssey has the tuck and the Challenger does not. My boat is beat to hell, but you'd have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. When it's finally unrepairable, I'll likely replace is with an Odyssey.
I use the Challenger on lakes, sluggish rivers and lively rivers. It's no speed demon, nor twitchy playboat, but tracks well if you're skilled, makes "enough" speed in the pools, rides over waves quite well, stays dry and is maneuverable enough to surf every once in a while and catch eddies if you plan them right. Primary stability is reasonable and secondary is *monstrous*. You can dip the gunwale and bring it back.
What you're asking of the boat sounds like typical river tripping, which is exactly what the Odyssey/Challenger is designed to do. You could easily end up with a lesser boat that costs much more.
Phreon
One Reason
… that happens a lot around here is that the original post is often so vague or misleading that it takes about 20 responses to flesh out what the original author is seeking.
Somalley
– Last Updated: Sep-16-07 9:56 PM EST –
I totally agree with your 9/14 post.
Stunt value would be the only purpose I can see for running a Wildfire over Nanty falls. I wouldn't do it in my Wildfire, and I wouldn't let any paddler I know try it in my Wildfire.
Tao Berman used a (whatever model) kayak to run waterfalls that were up to 95 +/- feet high. Therefore that model of kayak is "good to go" for waterfalls up to 95 feet high, no matter who the paddler is........NOT!!!!!!
Bob Foote ran an OC 1 down part of the Grand Canyon.
Therefore anyone can do the Grand Canyon in the boat he used........NOT!
Most of the rapids on Chattooga Section III are rated as class 3s. Therefore, if people are using Bell Wildfires to run class 3 rapids, they should be able to successfully run Chattooga Section III.........NOT!
I don't remember seeing any Wildfires available for student use when I took NOCs Intermediate Level II, whitewater, open canoe class. Maybe "now" they offer them..........NOT!
My main problem with the Wildfire/running class 3 issue is that some naive paddlers may get the idea that the Wildfire is a primo boat to use for class 3. It is not!
BOB
Mohawk Odyssey 15
– Last Updated: Sep-16-07 10:09 PM EST –
I've paddled an Odyssey 15 on many, multi day trips on class 1 & 2 rivers. The only reason I did so was because at the time, my only other option was to solo paddle a 17 foot aluminum Osagian.
I took the lesser of 2 evils, and used the Odyssey.
The Odyssey 15 is much less manueverable than the Odyssey 14. It's not that bad for paddling tandem with your young son, or daughter, or letting 2 small kids use it as a tandem. Great stability. Will carry lots of gear. Not a speed demon by any stretch of the imagination. Requires way too much effort to keep it moving in dead water.....sluggish comes to mind.
BOB
Hoz49
aka Jjoven See the first response to your question above.
Those pictures and his TR from a trip he did with that rig were what got me really thinking about sailing my boats.
Thanks Hoz!
Tommy
no problem Tommy
Yes I’ll admit Hoz49, Hoz and jjoven are all the same person…me.
But you have taken my lead and gone further by developing a sailing Osprey. (I sailed my Odyssey, Souris River Quetico 16, and now sail a homebuilt decked canoe, The Vinta)
Thx for the recognition Tom.
Odyssey
I’ve paddled a number of Mohawks, but never the Odyssey. Looking at the photo on the Mohawk web site, it looks as if it has very little rocker, just a little bit of end rise but judging from your description, this doesn’t seem to be the case.
Another random thought: although it certainly is a full-out whitewater boat, a reasonable river tripper in the 14 to 15 foot range, tough as nails, reasonably efficient for the class, and capable of handling anything up to and including the Niagra Gorge and the Grand Canyon would be a Whitesell Pyranha.