Oh, ohenry
I think you’ll need to weigh back in on weight/length/uses before the thread wanders suggestion-wise, far afield of your OP parameters.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
hudsonriverpaddler.org
Camping with some abuse…
– Last Updated: May-07-15 1:37 PM EST –
Plastic = drag it on shore, drop it, forget it. Result- scratches, gouges. Can be smoothed out later if desired, boat will function like new again. Surf landing on rocky beach sideways with load in the hatches - no problem.
Composite = drag it on shore, drop it on a sharp rock, get a spider crack and a soft spot to be repaired as time permits. Surf landing on rocky beach sideways with load in the hatches - hole or crack in the hull.
Pick your preference.
As for thermoform being easier to repair: you have more options than with fiberglass and similar (think various glues that work on thermoformed kind of plastic but are not a great choice on composites). Because a crack in thermoform do not mean weakening of the surrounding areas like you get with a soft spot on a fiberglass and similar kayaks, the repair area is smaller on the thermoformed for the same size crack, so simpler to do. No gel coat to crack and repair in addition to the hull main material, again = simpler to repair.
Tempest 165 or 170
I think most plastic sea kayaks are in the 55 lb range- a little more than 55 usually. Tempest is a great kayak. Personally I prefer a little heavier British triple ply poly kayak because the plastic is tougher.
It’s funny, you ask about plastic kayak and you get a discussion about composite kayaks. That’s pretty typical.
If it’s not already happening, I predict a generation from now most kayakers will be paddling plastic sea kayaks. Plastic makes sense for the average kayaker
I already made my choice
I’ve been “rough camping” out of the same boat for almost ten years.
interesting feedback
I’ve never had a fiberglass kayak. I thought people had to be extra careful with them (kind of like having a ferrari and not wanting to go on a dirt road with it!).
I’m already cautious with my plastic boat, but still have some scratches resulting from going over rocks, dragging it on the shore, hitting branches/rocks while portaging, etc.
I guess I would have to convince myself that it’s not because you pay a premium for a boat that you have to limit yourself in using it.
Why I value weight
Most of my trips involve portaging…while 3-5 lbs probably doesnt make a huge difference, if we’re talking about 10-15 lbs, then it becomes noticable
Even for just lifting/handling an empty kayak (putting it on the car, bringing it to the shore, storing it in the garage, etc.), 60 lbs start to feel heavy.
yadang I agree
Without a doubt I think plastic is tougher. The next question is composite tough enough? For most yes. BUT if I had to get only one kayak it would be plastic without a doubt.
I think that you think too lightly…
when thinking most plastic sea kayaks in the 16’to 17’ range are about 55 lbs.
What are your dimensions?
Height and weight?
Sounds like…
What you really need is a solo canoe.
LOVE my plastic Tempest
– Last Updated: May-07-15 8:01 PM EST –
I have to say that I LOVE my plastic Tempest 170. I found a glass version on Craigslist but it fell through. I found a plastic version a few weeks later and I'm SO GLAD I didn't pull the trigger on the glass. Now sure, I may get a glass one too eventually, but I LOVE the plastic and not having to worry about it.
I just went to Baja for a week-long expedition with several others. We all brought our plastic boats. My friend had debated bringing his glass boat but changed his mind at the last minute and was so glad he did. We got lots of scratches from rocks, unseen oysters, etc. Plus we had no worries of just dragging them up over the sand and shells on the beach for all the landings. At the end of the week, all of our boats had plenty of shavings from the scratches but that's the point of the plastic! He admitted he would have been shedding tears if it had been his glass boat.
I'm not disagreeing with anybody here that glass boats can be durable, but I really do love the peace-of-mind that comes with the plastic. My Tempest 170 is 58 pounds, and while it's easier to get it on and off my car with help, I can do this by myself, and I'm a 5'7" 170 pound female that's not particularly in good shape.
I’m…
5’11’’ and 185 lbs
No !
I hate canoe! Well no I don’t, but I much prefer to paqddle a kayak.
But I do admit that for portage, a canoe is just easier to handle.
We need to know more
Why are you associating abuse with lake camping? What type of conditions do you paddle in? More rocks than usual?
There are a great many kayaks that are suitable for lake camping. More or less all kayak materials will work for lake camping: wood, rotomolded plastic, thermoformed plastic, composite. It’s possible to treat those materials respectfully. I’ve camped for the last 5 years with a thermoformed kayak. I’ve accidentally ridden over many rocks and have had no material failures. Also dropped it off my car roof twice.
As for the length, if saving weight is important to you then I would also consider shorter kayaks. There are suitable touring kayaks even as short as 12.5’ A good compromise that would have reasonable speed would be about 14’.
“Light” is a subjective term. To me light means 45 lbs or less. Your target of 55 lbs is heavy in my opinion. Hatch volume is important. Look for at least 125 liters, preferably more. Stability is important too, of course.
Bottom line: take a look at the new Hurricane Sojourn line. Lightweight, stable, and lots of hatch volume. Your can get a Sojourn for a bit more money than a rotomolded but you can save 5 to 10 lbs, which is significant (at least to me). I got a Sojourn 135 specifically for lake camping.
Jon Turk paddles plastic boats
Nm…
Thermoform failure
There are a few, but really very few, reports of thermoform failure other than a hard hit in freezing water. The incidents I’ve read about involved crashing down in heavy surf and the kayak flexing and cracking. I recall two such reports. The reports of thermoformed plastic holding up well in rough conditions, being dropped off things, involved in car accidents, etc. are more numerous. Not recommended for white water but I would never hesitate to use thermoformed plastic for lake camping.
P&H Capella 160RM
– Last Updated: May-07-15 9:46 PM EST –
was right around 50-51 lbs, and its bigger brother the 166 was 54 lbs. Not made anymore but you can still find them used and they hold lots of gear for tripping. The 3-layer construction (foam core) is a nice compromise between straight plastic vs. going composite. The single-layer poly versions now made under the Venture name are advertised at similar weights but I'd bet they are a couple pounds heavier and not as stiff.
The plastic Zephyrs are also in the low 50's and for some reason the composite version is slightly heavier.
That’s what I used to think.
Then I bought a 12’ pack canoe. Now the kayak just hangs on the wall, and the canoe is the one that gets wet. Can you guess which one will be going with me to the Adirondacks next month?
I’ll admit there are some things I like better with the kayak than the canoe, but not enough to put up with dealing with the extra weight and length.
OPer’s Assumptions
OPer seemed unaware that anyone would camp out of a composite kayak and is looking for relatively lightweight. The first is wrong and the second argues for other than plastic. The discussion on composite is right in line on this thread.
It is always possible that the OPer has a true need for plastic based on how they will be treating the boat. But they should make that decision based on an understanding of how others use their composite boats, not an incorrect assumption about the fragility of composite.
Yep
I was going to add, my RM Capella 166 (molded in 2007) is lighter than any other plastic boat its size that I’ve encountered.