eye-Pod Q’s
Well, I’m learning some stuff here – interesting thread.
A couple questions on iPods:
Exactly what are the 4 generations of ipod? I’m guessing gen 1 had the hard drives with moving parts, gen 2 had flash memory in small chunks (2 GB, 4 GB), gen 3 has bigger chunks of flash memory (30 GB, 60 GB), and gen 4 has touch screen technology. That’s all hardware stuff, does the software change quality-wise over the 4 gens? I’ve probably got some things wrong in here, can someone restate the differences more correctly?
Presumably you want to stay away from gen 1 for reliability reasons - is there any reason not to buy a gen 2 product?
Do any of the apples have expansion slots to add storage space?
Do all of them (or later generations, anyway) allow viewing of pictures and video clips?
The shuffle (gen 2) doesn’t have a screen? How does it display, is there a line of digital text somewhere?
I use the Garmin Nuvi GPS
Getting files on it is much faster that with my old Ipod and I tunes. Now I just cut and paste from windows. Itunes often made my computer lag at times and several times the ipod had to be rebooted or reformatted or what ever it was.
And finally the ipod would not allow the usbwireless device to work. somehow they conflicted with each other so if I want to use the ipod and be hooked to the internet at the same time I had to run a cable into my room. This problem only occured with the ipod.
More expensive than free
You pay another 20 for the wall outlet adapter.
True, but still doesn’t justify
The extra cost of the iPod. I actually own an iPhone, and find it an amazing do everything device. But If all you are looking for is a convenient way to carry tunes, there are cheaper alternatives to the iPod. My first generic mp3 player still works five or six years after I bought it. My son’s pricey iPod died one week after the one year warranty expired–and repair cost is about the same as replacement.
FM on a hifi system
Will still sound better than the least compressed mp3 or Aac file plugged into the system and played through it. Folks who grew up in the post-vinyl era don’t realize how much fidelity was discarded when we shifted first to digital CDs then to even more compressed mp3 files. I’m waiting for the return of analog recording.
WHAT extra cost??
"The extra cost of the iPod."
The 120gb iPod classic is the same exact price as a 120gb Zune! (The Zune does come with an FM reciever.)
Without specific examples and models, talking about prices is useless!
It's unfortunate your son's iPod died but we have NO IDEA whether the failure rate of iPods is worse or better than any other product!
The cost to repair of almost any cheap electronic device is almost always close to the replacement cost. That's one reason they are so cheap.
BS
"FM on a hifi system will still sound better than the least compressed mp3 or Aac file plugged into the system and played through it."
This is BS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rate
Audio (MP3)
32 kbit/s – MW (AM) quality
96 kbit/s – FM quality
128–160 kbit/s – Standard Bitrate quality; difference can sometimes be obvious (e.g. bass quality)[citation needed]
192 kbit/s – DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) quality.[citation needed]
224–320 kbit/s – Near CD quality.
Got mine free
"You pay another 20 for the wall outlet adapter."
Got mine free.
Anyway, more BS. It seems the Zune doesn't come with a charger.
http://www.zune.net/en-US/products/z/zunedockpack/details.page/
Your comments are useless without specific examples.
Are you planning on buying old iPods
There are actually six generations! (I have a 5.5 generation one.)
I'm not sure why you are asking about ancient versions of iPods that aren't made anymore.
Unless you are thinking of buying an older (no longer manufactured) iPod, I'd only worry about the ones that are made at the moment.
Whatever you buy (and there are devices beyond the iPod), you should try to decide what features you want. Like any electronic device, players get cheaper and more feature rich over time. These things are not an investment.
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The Shuffle doesn't have a display. It's meant to be very small and very simple.
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Solid state memory (in large quantities) is still much more expensive than an equivalent hard disk. Solid state memory will be less delicate than a hard disk.
The new (current) iPod classic has a 120gb hard disk. The other ones, Shuffle, Nano, Touch, use solid state memory.
Great info
"And any songs (even with DRM) can be burned to CD in the AIFF format which means you can subsequently rip that CD to another machine or another platform"
Just to clarify: the quality of the file will be less than that from a real CD.
"Buy some good earbuds. The $50 Sennheisers that go in your ear are very nice and I can listen on a riding mower without having to crank the volume way up."
I think you are not talking about "ear buds" but "in ear" headphones.
The "ear bud" style is what comes with the iPod. These sit loosely in your ear.
"In ear" style head phones go into the your ear canal snugly. The fit for this type is more critical and some people just might not like it (these things make it harder to have this style as the kind that is included with the device).
The sound from the "in ear" type should be much better than for the ear buds but you'll be more isolated from surrounding noises. (I say "should be" because I don't own this type yet).
You can run the "in ear" style at lower volume (saving power) because less sound leaks out (they are more efficient).
Your favorite two letters
BS
You are talking in digital bitrates. I’m talking the difference between analog sound and digital. FM is currently analog, and any attempt to reduce it to a comparable digital “bitrate” makes no sense, until radio transmission goes digital.
If you’ve been involved in radio broadcasting, you’d know that if you broadcast a high quality vinyl (analog)recording over the FM airwaves, and listen to it on a high quality tuner-receiver–like the kind they made back in the hi-fi days–then followed that by broadcasting the same song in a 128 mp3 format, the difference is obvious, with the analog vinyl recording coming over the FM airwaves sounding far superior. If the FM sound quality was really the equivalent of the digital bitrate signal signal you cite, there would be no difference. But it doesn’t make sense to reduce analog sound to digital equivalents. I suspect you came into the world in the digital age, and never got to hear the real glory of analog recordings.
Sill BS
You keep producing it!
"You are talking in digital bitrates. I'm talking the difference between analog sound and digital. FM is currently analog, and any attempt to reduce it to a comparable digital "bitrate" makes no sense, until radio transmission goes digital."
FM certainly doesn't convey 100% of the original signal. It's a lossy form of transfer. This means there is only a limited amount of information that you can send on a analog FM signal. The reference indicates that the equivalent digital bit rate that matches FMs quality is 96kbit/sec. There is also interference (noise).
It's completely sensible to compare FM to digital bit rates!
CDs clearly sound much better than analog FM. This means the "best matching" bit rate for FM is less than the CD bit rate.
"But it doesn't make sense to reduce analog sound to digital equivalents."
You are implying that analog is better than digital. This is clearly false!
AM is another analog method of transferring information. And it's clearly much worse than FM (which is clearly worse than a CD).
Vinyl records are also lossy. They clearly don't convey 100% of the original signal. They also wear (they get more lossy) and are very inconvenient.
"I suspect you came into the world in the digital age, and never got to hear the real glory of analog recordings."
And you'd be wrong.
Vinyl records, even with their many, many problems, do sound pretty good (cassettes kind of sucked). But no one (other than you) is discussing records! How is this even relevant to this thread?
I'm still wondering how you play them in your car!
focus on the ear thingies
First you can improve sound more drastically than in choosing between actually players. Second - ear buds are not the best thing for your hearing. The in-ear earphones are less harmful and some of them sound outstanding.
Careful!
"Second - ear buds are not the best thing for your hearing. The in-ear earphones are less harmful"
Please provide a reference for this! I don't think it's true.
Because the "in ear" headphones are more efficient (they produce more effective sound energy for a given "volume" setting on the device), it would seem that you'd have to be -MORE- careful with them.
Note that the iPods (some of them at least) have an adjustable sound level limiter. Maybe, other devices have the same thing.
You have to be careful with the noise level with anything you use! It's really easy to overpower anything you stick in your ear.
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"focus on the ear thingies. First you can improve sound more drastically than in choosing between actually players."
(This, I agree with!)
Not quite correct
"No sound quality difference. The only thing that makes a difference is the earphones/speakers."
The earphones make the biggest difference but there are differences between how well the devices convert the digital information into an analog signal. Do some research.
naw
Naw, no old ones, but I care more about features than age. I was willing to look at that shuffle version until I realized it didn’t have a screen.
I was asking about the “gen” diffs because they are frequently mentioned in the ads, like “Only $139 - 4th Gen Nano” of “3rd gen shuffle $39”.
Please see my next “challenge” post 
cmon apple-lovers
Okay, come on now, you apple-lovers. Put your offers where your mouth is
You convinced me to try an iPod as my 2nd MP3 player, and I’m even willing to pay a little more to try out the superior software. But now that I try shopping, I can’t find anything anywhere near comparable to two generic offers I posted earlier:
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Sansa c250 2GB with microSD expansion slot – 16.99 incl shipping
+
Kingston 8GB microSD card – 18.44 incl shipping
Note – I’m not sure the c250 can use an 8 GB card, but I would guess that it can.
Visual Land vl877c 8GB mp3/mp4/photo-player – 37.99 incl shipping
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I thought the shuffle was comparable but it doesn’t even have a screen. And I don’t want one with a hard drive, that’s just moving parts to break.
I thought ya’ll said I could go apple for just a little more? Help me find a 8-10GB ipod for under $50.
zunes = gates-pod
Zunes aren’t a good comparison to iPods. Zunes = gates-pod. They were just microsoft’s attempt to copy and co-op the iPod idea. And anyway, the hard drive idea has been overtaken by the rapid drop in the price of solid state memory. Nobody wants the unreliablility of moving parts if you can get flash memory anywhere near the same price.
When the 120 GB hard drives came out 2 years ago, the retail price on 512MB cards was like $20 at best, on sale, so the hard drive made some sense. A year later you could find 2 GB SD cards at that price point. Today you can buy an 8 GB SD card for $18.44 including shipping. If we can extend this trend one more year, that would be a 32 GB card. 32 GB is a ton of music.
In my opinion, the only valid price comparison is solid state iPods to solid state MP3 players. I’ve been shopping in those categories the last couple days and I can’t find an iPod under $100, while I have 2 generics under $40. If I’m wrong, please help me out in my apple-lovers-challenge post below.
ebay
Hmmm, just saw an 8 GB touch on ebay for $78 shipped, but no cables or recharger - so maybe under $100 total if I can find the cables cheap. That’s about the best I’ve seen.
Sony Walkman is a good one