You’ve completely lost me
Let’s start again. The post I said I disagree with stated, “Red-Right-Return is wrong with regard to kayakers since they should stay out of the main channel whenever and wherever possible. So coming in the red nuns should be on your left and going out the green cans should be on your left too.”
Red-Right-Return is a simple way of remembering how channel markers are laid out as one approaches. It isn’t ‘wrong for kayakers’ - it’s right for all boaters. The red isn’t on the left for kayakers because right means - to the right of the green.
Where you think a kayaker ought to be paddling is your opinion. That doesn’t make it a navigational rule. My point is that we don’t make these things up as we go along. Knowing how a channel is marked and how other boats will navigate keeps us all safe. You saying that ‘the educational argument is overdone’ - really, just how much education is too much? Too much to say - red-right-return? Please.
Maine, Maryland, Florida, Vancouver - what difference does it make? Red-Right-Return. Then stay out of the way of faster and larger vessels. Pretty simple really.
Nope - you lost me
I figure that in general kayakers are smart enough to learn the correct nav rules and still be able to set an alternative path of travel that is safe and considerate of other craft. Apparently not everyone agrees.
And Mark - you just nicely described exactly the situation that I had in mind. What little I've paddled in the Chesapeake Bay area suggested to me that there may be very wide areas of shallows that tend to have a lot of action from wind and tide changes. While there are a couple of areas of refracting waves at just the right tide moment going into Friendship Harbor that send us to the edge of the channel, for the most part the normal change amount of the tide assures that the channel will be set fairly far away from the shore. And rocks don't have a tendency to migrate back into the channel like sand does, so things stay fairly predictable over time.
A clarification and a question
In my OP, I was careful to say “on the right” rather than “on your right.” I still wasn’t clear enough, though. I was trying to use “red, right, returning” as a memory device for the red marking the right side of the channel as one is returning, specifically to leave the question of whether one is in the channel or not, out of the discussion. I don’t mind at all though that others chose to discuss it. Brings up a question for me actually.
Yaquina bay as far in as I was, near Toledo, is almost all recreational fishing boats. I noticed they were slowing down for me even when I was well out of the channel. I was wondering if there was any clear way for me to signal them that they don’t need to slow down for me. I suspect not, but wondering.
I have a good story of having helped out a rec fishing boat while I was out there, by the way. I’m sure that guy appreciated kayakers on that day. He thanked me about 5 times. I gotta zip off to work right now though.
Paul S.
Wave and smile?
To ease your guilt, sometimes the boaters are slowing down just to get a better look at the paddlers. They are out there to recreate too and I guess we are part of the local color. We have found that smiling and waving back often gives them a clue they can push it up again.
The other thing that we’ve noted is that boaters tend to slow down more regularly in areas where canoes are more common, which strikes me as a good habit. Better that they fail to supply some bored kayakers with a good wave than dump a canoe with two adults, a child and and a dog.
R-R-R
Red, Right, Return is how the nav aids are laid out so you can find the channel. I agree that it’s best to stay out of the channel whenever possible, and cross at a right angle with a tight group (although can be like hearding cats) when needed.
Maybe we’re allowed to use the channel, maybe not - but if there’s a problem the kayaker will be on the short end of the stick.
As open water paddlers, it’s our responsibility to know how to read the navigational aids and know where its safe for us to paddle. The decision of where this is has to be based on a responsible paddler’s knowledge and experience.
Boater Responsibility
It is a law that the boat is responsible for any damage caused by the boat or the operator. That being said if you see a powerboater slowing down it’s either the operator has been ticketed before, or taken a boating safety class.
Can you imaging the headline?
Powerboater on plane cruising by the harbormaster rolls a pod of kayakers on a guided tour causing multiple drownings.
Further news-- harbormaster fired. Guide and powerboater found at fault for not keeping the group together as they crossed the channel revealed other impatient boaters.
A Captains perspective
I have held a USCG Masters (Captains) license (100 ton) for eight years now. It took a lot of sea time to qualify just to take the tests. I offer that info only to offer credibility. It doesn’t make me better than any of you, probably just far more experienced in the subject matter. I’m also an avid paddler, so I play on both sides of the issue.
I think most of you have a healthy respect for other vessels and will use your crafts maneuverability to stay clear of other vessels that are far more constrained by draft or maneuverability.
I live on a channel, and see no logical reason why kayakers would paddle within the atons as there’s plenty of water at the edges. Kayakers have no special ranking because they are kayakers. They still have to yield to vessels constrained by draft, resticted in maneuverability, engaged in commercial fishing, sailing, etc.
Narrow waterways present a problem, as do blind corners. It is not OK for any vessel to impede anothers passage in a narrow waterway. That said, it’s up to an overtaking vessel to yield to any vessel it is overtaking.
The Rules are too complex to go into here, and because of their complexity it’s easy to sort of half understand them and draw conclusions to support one’s biases, which I think paddlers are prone to do.
Common sense and an awareness of what other vessels are doing, and need from you to ease their passage goes a long way, and will negate most of these arguments.
Kayakers are not appreciated for the most part by Tug Masters, Ferry Masters, Fisherman etc., as they often are completely clueless. Crossing shipping lanes in the fog is a biggy where I live, as is poking along in a narrow passage in front of a Ferry.
Based on reading all your posts above I think you folks would be courteous and pleasant to encounter for any other vessels.
Relax, think, and be friendly.
On plane not a problem
It’s when they slow down and fall off plane that they make the big wakes. In my experience, most small powerboats make bigger wakes just below planing speed than when they’re up and properly trimmed out.
Kayakers can use channels, too
Just use common sense when doing so, and remember that pretty much every vessel in there is going to have right of way over you (except smaller pleasure powerboats). This runs counter to eel assuming that those of us who would use the channel thinking that all vessels are equal - certainly not. A more maneuverable vessel has a greater burden than a less maneuverable vessel. Since kayaks can turn faster than commercial tonnage fishing boats, etc, and can leave the channel without fear of grounding, they are always going to be required to give way.
Remember, too, that rules of the road give way to the unwritten "Law of Superior Tonnage". And even the stand-on vessel has the obligation to take all measures to avoid an accident, even if that means giving way. So while paddlers have every right to the channel, don't cling doggedly to this right - if the channel is uncrowded, by all means, use it. If there is a lot of traffic in it, it is both courteous and prudent to stay out of it.
Boat wakes lead to funeral wakes?
That is a huge leap from boat wake - to presumed inability to handle wakes - to presumed capsize - to presumed inability to recover from capsize - to presumed lack of PFD/immersion clothing/inabity to swim - to presumed drowning.
Damage? A wake should cause no “damage” to a kayaker. If it does - it doens’t say much for the kayaker.
Red Right Returning not always true
If you do any boating on the ICW, as I do, you learn that "red-right-returning" doesn't really apply.
Since the ICW runs along the shore, "returning from sea" isn't really meaningful. Some of us here in Texas say "red-right-(to the) Rio" meaning if you are pointed toward the Rio Grande, you should have the nuns on on your right.
Here is an example - my bay house in Galveston is in West Bay, so if I want to go into the Port of Galveston, I head northeast. In that case, I keep the red nuns on my left. This is really important, especially in a powerboat or sailboat, but even in a kayak you want to stay in the channel. West Bay is an extremely shallow bay, averaging only 2-3' deep. Along much of West Bay, the ICW runs between high spoil banks, but just before you get to the I-45 Causeway, the spoil banks stop, and you only have the buoys to tell you where the channel is. Just to either side of the channel here, there are oyster reefs that are exposed at low tide.
Another aid to navigation for when the ICW intersects other channels, when traveling south, look at the dayboards - keep yellow squares to port, yellow triangles to starboard, no matter what the color of the other navigational aids.
Mostly agree
except commercial fishermen should not be "engaged in commercial fishing", ie., have their nets down, in the channel.
That’s true
They are still operating as a “displacement hull” at those speeds, and the water they displaced ahs to go somewhere. Once they are on plane their wake is good fun for a paddler.
Clearly…
I was referring to general hierarhy.
Boating Rules
The US Department of Transportation, The U S Coast Guard publication “Navigation Rules” International-Inland. Publication COMDTINST M16672.2C and the newer version D are the rules of record. The rules can be downloaded from USCG web site in pdf format. This is also known as “72 COLREGS”.
Here is a help hint.
May - A vessel has an option
Must/Shall - A vessel must comply
If Practicable - If circumstance or situation allows
Any - all or everything imaginable
Except - States some type of exclusion or waiver
Assume or Assumption - it is believed to be
The term International means rules of Action
Inland means rules of intention
Boating Rules part 2
The inter-coastal waterway has a different set of rules in addition to 72 COLORREGS and there is a web site for them also. Yes I took the test and was required to make 90% or more. It was not easy and the civil test has a 70% score to pass and good for 5 years. This shold also get you petter insurance quotes for watercraft.
Salty, what kinds of vessels
do you captain?
I was in the US Navy, 1977-80, definitely not a captain. I was a machinist mate in the engine room. Wish now that I’d gone for navigations specialist, or whatever it’s called in the Navy. Coast Guard might have been good too, but I wanted to see the world ;-).
Paul S.
Agreed
I enjoy a good wake. I was just trying to point out that lots of folks get upset by the speed of a passing boat even though there is often an inverse correlation between speed and wake size.
yep
I think it’s pretty obvious that the objective as a smaller craft is to stay out of the way of a larger craft (but then perhaps I’m giving too much credit). But the reality is that there are times that traveling outside of the channel is unavoidable.
Amen
Good answer. Some of the responses drive me up the wall. I couldn’t stop laughing after I read it. I was confused but didn’t waste my time rereading it.
You got my vote.