same here paul
Which is why I blanch at the durability blanket statements. I’ve repeated that expeditioners continue to chose this brand but that is all apparently seen as hyperbole. Well I’ve dropped my explorer twice now from the roof to pavement and no structural issues. It took the second drop to see gelcoat cracking even appear on this boat, which I’ve seen spider on Valley boats quite regularly.
I think the blanket statements really
– Last Updated: Nov-22-10 10:50 AM EST –
apply to the construction method, which can result in a serious failure, but far more often than not, does not. I think "most" of us NDK owners would rather see our boats made from the latest technology (ala Tiderace), some might not because of cost. I intend to give my boat a thorough going over and will try to the best of my ability to locate suspect areas of the lay up. Deflection, sounding, and visual checks are all that come to mind at the moment. I really appreciate NDK boats and all that Nigel Dennis has done for the sport. I will continue to buy NDK kayaks, but will expect to see obvious signs of continuous improvement from SKUK. I expect this from any good manufacturer. Bill
ps- My Valley's are spider cracked on the decks and in the hulls, but the underlying structure is sound. Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. Sorry, I could not resist the childish urge.
spider cracking
Spider cracking is going to happen eventually to all kayaks, the glass is somewhat flexible and the gelcoat isn’t. It’s also not structural, just cosmetic.
One of the reasons you see alot of old NDK’s is they are still in business, many of the companies from back then arn’t. I though see lots of other old boats around too, specially in the past couple of years with the economy the way it is, people are using them more because it’s cheap.
My NDK btw, is a '97, not exactly new.
Bill H.
ala Tiderace
A new Romany is about $3100. A new Tiderace Xcite is about $3800. The Tiderace is made better and performs at least as well if not better according to reviews. I realize that $700 can be significant but if you are spending that much money it would seem rational to at least test paddle the Tiderace.
I was quoted $5,000 for the Explore
made from the vacuum bagged epoxy process they are currently moving to Thailand. A used Explore X in the Finland ? made hollow core was $3800. I demoed the boat and found its weight to be borderline ridiculous. For a big boat, it turned really well,but with my back problems I would be tempting fate every time I loaded that pig. Finest construction I have ever seen in a kayak, man was I impressed. Let’s hope the epoxy boats from Thailand weigh less. Bill
Brian … I believe this is the first
ply you might be seeing http://www.freemansupply.com/FiberglassVeilClot.htm …
From the sound of it, they probably are NOT going with his expense.
No comment on mat for human powered craft.
what are you, a vendor?
Let it go man.
Unsupported Expeditioners?
“I’ve repeated that expeditioners continue to chose this brand but that is all apparently seen as hyperbole.”
Frankly, I’m not sure it matters what expeditioners use and/or how relevant it is to the normal weekend warrior. That said, I suspect there are people doing all kinds of expeditions in all kinds of places using all kinds of boats. The ones publicized are the sponsored ones and it may give a false impression. My favorite story is of the person on a trip sponsored by a big name paddle company and the pictures show them with that paddle. Actually they almost exclusively used a GP.
I have no dog in this fight so I’m not saying anything about NDK specifically.
Tiderace Pricing
Just to confirm…
The pricing for an epoxy based, multi cured, ‘Classic’ (glass) 2011 Tiderace Xcite or Xplore, will be less than $3800.
Our new range of touring boats, the Xcape, has an MSRP of around $3000.
I am not sure where the figure of $5000 has come from?
how relevant to the normal weekend…
“how relevant…to the normal weekend warrior”
Thank you Ed. Indeed it is not unusual for a boat to be made specifically for the use of an expedition paddler. So, while the reports from an expedition on the handling of a particular boat maybe valuable, the durability of the specific boat used may not correlate to a regular production model.
Romany pricing?
I am not sure were the quoted pricing for a Romany came from either. I have checked the websites of several State-side NDK dealers. They are all asking more than $3100 for a new Romany.
Made at the same factory as Necky
Superb construction. Nothing I know of compares in terms of strength.
Accurate comments eel
$5,000 was the price over the phone
from your east coast rep. to my dealer. Maybe the dealer was inflating things a bit in order to sell me the demo boat. Looking forward to seeing the new boats, with an eye towards the weight. Bill
Pricing
Romany:
http://www.maineislandkayak.com/ndk_romany.html
May be out of date but no date is given.
Tiderace: I don’t remember but if the price is lower that is fine.
So the Romany costs more and the Xcite costs less? Simply supports my point.
All valid points, Celia
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Yes, chopped-strand mat is commonly used to stiffen decks, which is one place where its thickness is an advantage. It adds considerable weight and there are better, lighter ways to stiffen things (e.g., foam core with glass cloth), but mat is functional and inexpensive.
I don't recall if I've ever worked on an NDK that wasn't the "standard" layup, so I can't comment on the higher-priced optional layups.
I don't dispute that other manufacturers have had their problems. Defects happen, but the key question is what do they do about them?
You're correct that most of the boats I've repaired have been of British origin, but that's because Brit' boats are popular among the people I paddle with, and I've owned four VCP boats myself (all'96 or earlier). I have owned and worked on other brands and without exception, they've been well-built (better built), but I don't claim that my experience is representative of the broader market. However, I will say that I've seen enough to know what a well-built boat looks like and I have personal experience with the difference a quality layup makes in durability, as my boats don't live an easy life. ;-)
Perhaps…
…but the boats in question were definitely NOT vacuum bagged.
As for mat, have you ever even had the stuff in your shop? Then again, I guess you could use it for making molds.
true enough
my only point in saying so was that those expeditioners must have confidence in NDK, none of them are novices. But I agree with your point.
mat
Actually I’ve got a whole roll of the stuff that’s been sitting in the shop for years, can’t think of anything I want to use it for. Got it for free, so kinda had to take it. Bloody roll is heavy too.
Bill H.
I don’t understand
what is your point with confidence in NDK. Obviously it is a top brand with thousands of users. Are you insecure about the brand or what? I’m really confused about this. Please do not take this the wrong way. There is no anger while I am typing this. I’m just missing the point of all of this passionate defense/allegiance to the “brand”.
To me it is completely irrelevant whether NDK has thousands of users, or whether it goes on expeditions or whatever. The point is that it lacks in build quality - and this is agreed upon by pretty much everyone here.
So those who know NDK - for them it is nothing new.
But those who are just arriving at the scene and considering buying a new kayak - this information is very important for them. I see these threads as a very useful revelation about this brand. Buyers like to be informed.