ummm…
toyota.
bnystrom
and his one button operating system.
someone ask about ndk and stand back…
original poster…the boats are much better than they were…there have been some problems but i have not heard of any recently and i’m fairly close with a distributor…helped unwrap several last week and they were all fine (well, the knuckleheads didn’t ship over the hatch covers) so all this ranting a raving is sort of just that…
Good dealer
She called him, bugged him, etc. Told me that not only would I not incur a penalty for rejecting a boat, but neither would she.
That tells me that NDK has a backbone, too. I don’t know how they can screw up something like moving the BH the wrong direction, though. (Mine is not the only one that happened to.) That’s a real puzzle.
I think you are presenting more of
a doomsday scenario here. NDK’s are not so F’ed up that the construction materials and methods do not produce a boat that will last many years. The things they usually get wrong are customer specs, coaming attachments, deck fitting leaks, missing decals, leaking skeg boxes, and maybe a few more FIXABLE things. There is practically nothing on these boats that cannot be fixed as the important stuff like materials and construction are sound and proven items- IN MY EXPERIENCE. Are you saying that you have knowledge of non-repairable failures in new NDK boats that were sold to a consumer? Bill
Sercov- FWIW I traded in my Cetus for
the NDK romany Surf. The Cetus was the original HV version so I cannot offer experience with the LV. I will tell you that the P&H Cetus I owned was exceptional quality, beautiful lines, and the absolute worst performing boat I have ever owned. Horrible tracking in rearward winds, and a broaching monster. The boat turns on a dime, great storage, comfortable, great speed, rolls well, go figure. I wanted to love that boat so badly, but it would not love me back. I am not the only one who feels this way about the original Cetus and I am sure that many others don’t feel this way. Bill
problems
A lot of manufacturers have quality issues, NDK has had more issues than others.
As far as Brain not liking NDK he has expressed genuine concern about the safety of some of these kayaks. I remember telling him the story of someones NDK that had no cloth (or almost no cloth) in the compass area on the deck. It was in a shop for a repair and the repair person pushed on the compass area with his finger, his finger went straight through the deck. Brain was concerned and angry at the possibility of one of these kayaks breaking apart and someone getting killed because of the poor construction. He wasn’t posturing or thumping his chest, he was genuinely upset and disgusted that anyone would ship a product that was that poorly made and possibly dangerous.
Someone else I know has an Explorer with the infamous “one layer of cloth behind the skeg box” issue.
My wife’s Explorer had a skeg box that was too small for the (rope) skeg, so they forced it into the box and it wouldn’t deploy until I ripped it out and ground it down.
NDK had instructions on repairing uncured seams on their website. If I buy a new kayak I shouldn’t have to break it apart and fiberglass it back together!
Yes my wife and I have two Explorers at home and owning a Romany S/HV is very appealing to me, so I’m not an NDK hater, I just wish they would do things better.
I would say inspect it carefully, and don’t order a new one unless you can turn it down upon inspection.
bnystrom
is telling it like it is, has been for a long time, and has more industry knowledge to back up what he is saying than any five of us in this thread.
Do all kayak makers - large and small - make the occasional lemon? Yes, as long as there are humans involved this will be so.
But to try to explain or even justify this by saying something like “they all do it” is a facile and shallow tactic.
They are not all as bad as NDK. Not even close.
And one of the greatest designers of our times seems not to care as long as there are people willing to roll the dice and chance on getting “a good one” or there are dealers who, in the name of customer service, are willing to be NDK’s unpaid subcontractors fixing all the shoddy work and supplying all the missing parts on the boats that come over here.
Sight unseen…
…I would go with P&H any day.
Three different names since 2004…
…Nigel Dennis Kayaks…Nigel Dennis Sea Kayaks…Sea Kayaking UK…does that tell anyone anything ???
Explorer LV
No one is standing back, I need advice so…I’m asking.
I don’t unterstand your point. Every boat has issues but NDK is the only company everyone talks about theirs. I intend to buy one, I prefer to know first
Bewst regards
Thanks for posting
Sercov
No one better from whom to buy NDK
– Last Updated: May-06-10 4:46 PM EST –
We have 2 NDK boats in the family (a Romany and an Explorer LV). We purchased both from Tom Bergh (MIKCo). There is no one better from whom to buy an NDK boat than Tom. If you're looking at boats at the Rough Water Symposium then you're looking at boats from Tom.
I love my Romany and Celia loves her Explorer LV. We are contemplating visiting Tom this summer so Celia can demo a Pilgrim and a Pilgrim Expedition.
I believe there are only 2 good ways to buy an NDK boat: well used that you can demo and any defects will have manifested or from Tom Bergh.
Romany S
I’m thinking of a Romany S as a next boat. Have a Eddyline Fathom and don’t like the high deck and a few other things. Also I live on a 25 mile long inland lake where most of my paddling is done. And I do like speed more than maneuvering. A bit concerned that the Romany S might be a bit slow. Appreciate your thoughts given you NDK experience. Thanks.
Another slight derailment…
…about the CetusLV. As far as fit and quality goes, you can’t beat this boat. It’s the first P&H to fit my skinny husband and he’s been more than happy with its performance. It turns well and rolls very easily; in fact, it’s the first boat I’ve tried that actually rolls better than my NDKs, which are rolling machines.
It even fits me although I’m better off with 16’.
However, I don’t want to diss NDK either as, or at least for me, the kayaks have been great both in performance, fit and durability. I’ve taken my RomanyLV into some pretty rough rock gardens of the cringe-inducing “Dear God I Did it NOW”, complete with that horrible booming, scraping noise as fiberglass hits New England granite and I’ve yet to hole the boat. True, I have a truck bed keel strip, but that’s held up really well, too.
Still, you wouldn’t go wrong with P&H as far as durability goes…
Second that…
My two experiences with NDK dealers – the RomanyLV came from MIKCO, the ExplorerLV from Sea Kayak Georgia on Tybee Island – were well worth it as I had the distinct feeling from both of them that, if anything went wrong, I’d be taken care of.
Most…easily in fact
So, hypothetical question
You currently pay upwards of 4k or more for an NDK. Would you pay 5k for an elite version that was infused, 10-15 lbs lighter, stiffer and stronger, with a 10 year warranty?
Say a 45 lb Explorer you could abuse beyond a current boat by far, 35 lb Romany etc?
Just curious? Don’t read anything into this. Just asking what you’d pay for world class quality in Nigels designs?
What many may not appreciate is that a guy like Nigel views the boats as simple tools. They are very easily fixed, simple, and relatively tough and easy to manufacture. They’ve transported a hell of a lot of people around the mud ball in safety, and that is without argument.
Good day,
Bergh’s an ass… who’s
a good friend! Seriously, a great guy, super smart, fun, and for a lawyer, ultra cool.
Guy has quite the background in motorcycle racing, skiing, logging, lawyering, paddling etc.
Could not agree with wilso more here!
45 lb? maybe for their kevlar model…
.
Toyota makes kayaks?
I was trying to keep this conversation about the pertinent industry.
Unfortunately, it’s typical
On a custom boat for an acquaintance of mine, they “forgot” to install the day hatch. As others here have pointed out, “forgetting” to use sufficient fiberglass - or even any at all - in some parts of their boats was not uncommon. Who knows what they’re “forgetting” these days? 