"On a bay off of the Chesapeake bay"
He’s not sending his kids from Hampton to Cape Charles. There are places as calm as any mud puddle in Oklahoma.
I appreciate al lthe good advice,
– Last Updated: Sep-24-14 10:58 AM EST –
even if you don't think I'm listening to it. Here's what I think I've learned so far, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong: for our location (somewhat protected, but still it's over a mile to the nearest shore - there is nice, undeveloped, shallow areas beginning within a couple hundred yards of our house, still open to the big water though) I think we should stay away from 8-10' sit in kayaks. I don't want my kids in something that could get rapidly filled with water or would be difficult or impossible for them to right if they flip, at least not until they have vastly improved skills. That seems to leave longer, expensive, sea-going kayaks, or sit on tops. I'm all for getting a decent used (Mark suggested Pelican 100, which there is one on craigslist now) SOT for my son. But before I get either of them anything, I think we'll go find someplace to rent one because I want to see if my daughter (about 45#) is big enough to use one, and if not I don't see a problem letting her figure it out on the $120 bathtub? I really don't understand the hate for that thing - sure, it's a silly little pool toy, but if she can control it and make it move she'll be happy - she doesn't care that it's not a *real* kayak, or that's it's not a name brand, she just cares that it floats and she can cruise around a little in it. When she gets to the point where she would rather use her brother's Apex 100 then I'll get her one and we'll save the pool toy for when they have friends over or they can try and float the dog on it or whatever. Is that so bad? ;o) I'll pick up a 16' canoe for me and my wife and we can test out the Apex and see if that's what we want for ourselves or something different. Thanks for the link too!
Yes, there are but
In what has been posted there was also a mention of a more aggressive paddle for himself.
And the OPer is not familiar with the area and hasn’t even moved there yet. Some links on where to find those calmer places might be helpful.
I’ll try to respond
– Last Updated: Sep-24-14 3:00 PM EST –
Speaking only for myself, of course, as you have referred to my earlier responses.
To be clear, I did not and do not recommend the Pelican Apex 100. I just was saying that if you insist on shopping at Dick's, that would be a better option than that silly $119 thing.
I think people dislike those types of "boats" for a number of reasons. For one thing, buying them supports the cynical market for offshore-produced cheap plastic junk. These things do not deserve the space they take up in landfills, which is where it will end up. It's sad that people succumb to this garbage and it is not good for anyone.
Second, it's just not a way to get a child interested in the sport, and it's a great sport that children love when properly brought into it. I play piano, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone say, "I'll buy a Casio keyboard from Walmart and if she takes to it, then we'll get a real piano." Never happens. Same story occurs in many other contexts. Junk is junk and it performs like junk, and kids can tell the difference, even if they don't fully understand why etc.
Third, it is a bit of a safety issue. Those little tubs will not track worth a damn, and in a slight breeze will spin like a top. The only thing they are good for is providing a float toy for very small children in very shallow protected areas. (Even then they are ugly, to say the least.) Put one of those on a beach that opens to the Chesapeake, and I think you are inviting risk.
FWIW, my son was 4 and smaller than your daughter when I bought him his Emotion SOT. He was able to paddle the thing fairly well immediately (he was only allowed to paddle it in very protected settings for a couple of years). You may be underestimating her?
I understand the temptation to get a nice fun thing, that will help make the move to the waterfront house exciting, and will make the kids squeal with delight. Been there. But that is a short-lived (and I think false) thrill. It is more responsible to ... well, to do exactly what you are doing -- study the situation, check in with experienced paddlers, ask good questions...
And I think the best thing you could do, as you said, is to take them for lessons (and get a couple yourself). Don't buy anything until you've done that. Find someone you trust to teach you and them, and ask them questions. And look beyond Dick's and Walmart and the like. And maybe be prepared to spend a little more money, for something that will last longer and encourage growth.
Sorry if I sound preachy, that's not really my style. I do this for fun (and exercise), and it has to stay fun. There are plenty of sanctimonious people in the world (lots of them in kayaks), and I don't mean to seem like one. But somehow I got caught up in your plight here, so that's my 2 cents. :)
Mark
I think I’m gonna call “troll”
The Reality Is:
Kayaks and canoes are for old people, hardly any kids paddle them anymore. Seems the kids prefer SUPs and that’s what I’d get them instead.
I’m not too crazy about the SUP,
– Last Updated: Sep-24-14 9:44 PM EST –
But then, I'm "old" I guess. :o) I'm sure they'll be wanting those soon enough. Mark, I really appreciate your response. I hereby promise not to buy a $120 POS. So, if we can agree that a SOT is the right thing for us and our location, you might have a hard time convincing me a Perception Tribe is worth $200 more than the Pelican. I can't find an online price for the Emotions, seems they're only carried by Ace Hardware, REI (not on their website) and Ski Chalets. Maybe I'll stop by the hardware store and see if they have any, but based on their generally inflated prices of everything else, I'm not hopeful. You happy now? ;o) Just kidding, I really do appreciate everyone's input. Even the SUP guy. HA! Just found a 8' Emotion Spitfire "Like New" for $275 on craigslist near me - whaddya say Mark, is that a good deal? Although the ad's been up for a month, probably gone.
Hunt Around
For you might get lucky and score a used Olympic style K-1 that your kids will love and paddle. You might even find a kid’s size one too. They’ll love it because most grownups can’t paddle them, but kids can. Watch em zoom out and back, and up and down the shore out of sight. They’ll have exclusivity and something real cool to paddle.
Excellent!
At least I’ve helped talk you out of that…
The Emotions are not great boats, I’m not saying they are. I bought one because it was “on sale” at a local shop and looked ok for my then 4 year old. It was $250 (six years ago). I then found that amazon had them for even less, with free shipping, and ordered another. I see amazon is higher now, but Cabella’s has them new for $225, so I don’t think $275 is a good deal at all. FWIW, I plan to offer mine on CL for $100 each (in NY). Wouldn’t expect to get much more.
As someone else suggested, in the world of sub-$300 SOT’s, they all are probably about equal. The Pelican would probably be not much different from the Emotion. None of them are great kayaks (or even good kayaks), but they are a ton better than the $120 POS, and they are at least paddle-able. And my kids have had a ton of fun with theirs.
Stay with the lesson idea and resist the urge to buy before doing the lessons.
"The Emotions are not great boats…"
Damn you’re hard to please! ;o)
No “bathtubs” for little kids
… it’s your CHILD. What part of “my child’s safety comes first on the water?” are you missing ? They may “look” more like they’re boats, but they behave the opposite of what they appear to be. They’re tippier, and when they go over, they’re stuck. They fill up with water, they are then extremely heavy, and it is impossible to get them turned back over, get back in, and get the water back out WITHOUT GOING BACK TO SHORE. Unless you are a strong person and trained… even so, of all the kayaks one would select to attempt a self rescue, the cheap “Beginner Bathtub Model” comes in DEAD LAST.
Took a clinic 2 years ago. Flipped my sit on top. Came up out of the water. Okay. Flipped it back over, it drained itself promptly, got back on. No problemo. Somebody else flipped their un-spray skirted, short sit- in, aka a slightly upgraded bathtub, and it behaved like the water logged beached whale that it then was. We get “Beluga” to shore, and then it takes several adults helping the dumped paddler to turn it over and bail the thing out and then hold it steady (the current was fast there) so they can get back in. Those things are water pigs once breached. Yes, there are small, sit in kayaks that are relatively safe… but Cheapa$$ big box store bathtub rec kayaks are not in that category.
Water is DEEP near the docks.
Water is cold at this time of year. Small children do not have a lot of body fat and are prone to getting cold quickly when submerged. This problem also afflicts teenaged boys quite a bit, who like to push their limits. This unplanned for hypothermia can quickly turn to life threatening hypothermia, the muscles seize up, and then the child cannot swim.
Either get her a small sit-on-top, or…
Have her ride with you or mom on a larger sit-on-top. Plenty of them can be modified by adding a cushion for a seat in front of your feet, even if they aren’t “two seaters.”
kayaks for kids
Before you buy a “youth” kayak for your 8 year old, you should let her try something else. My 7 year old niece who is also a skinny little thing started paddling in a 10ft SIK rec boat using an adult sized paddle. She did great. She also paddled a 9 ft SOT no problem.
We run sumer camps for 6-8 years olds and they paddle the Indian River Lagoon in full sized kayaks. These kids range from tiny to normal size. Also, even thought the IRL is on average 3-4 ft deep, we do cross the channel. So all campers are in fore and aft bulkheaded kayaks with good flotation, we carry paddle floats and pumps and leaders who are experienced in self and assisted rescue.
By the way, my niece who is now 8, has already called dibs on my 14 ft UL SOT for this summer.
Hope this helps
This is probably the first or second time I have posted anything on P-net, but you seem to genuinely want some information and the responses to this point have been “all over the board.” I have a 12 yr-old boy and two 10 yr-old girls. Each has his/her own kayak. All are the same boat. I bought one where I live in Tennessee, but ordered two from Washington state. Because they were discontinued several years ago, they are probably not an option for you. In my opinion, they would be perfect for your kids. They may be available used. They are Ocean Kayak Kea’s. I considered buying some of the kayaks that you have mentioned, but decided that for a little more I could get them much better kayaks. You can google them to get a picture, but they are SOTs that are sized for kids up to about 120 lbs. If you can’t find them used, I good options for kids are limited.
Particularly for kids, I believe that SOTs are the way to go. We have nine kayaks, most are SOTs. The kids kayak out a ways, jump off, swim around in life jackets, climb back on and continue our journey. They have a blast. They see who can stand up longer without falling off, they tip each other over, they tip themselves over, etc. For kids, simply paddling for long distances is boring. We may paddle several miles, but the miles are interspersed with play.
One other tip, is that I ALWAYS believe that the advice you get on a website is OK, but you should take any opportunity (or create an opportunity) to try before you buy. I’ve had numerous kayaks ranging from a surfski to whitewater kayaks and about everything in-between. Kayaks paddle much differently and you can’t tell by looking at them or looking at specifications. Some are simply more fun or lively. Some paddle like a train on a track. Others turn on a dime. Others tip over with just a slight lean. You get the idea. Twenty minutes “in the saddle” will tell you more than hours on a website. I’ve driven hundreds of miles to try out a new kayak in ocean conditions before buying. Other than avoiding a costly mistake, it’s just fun to try out several kayaks.
Thanks Jim!
Still haven’t pulled the trigger yet, but I’m leaning towards the Apex 100s. I’d really like the Ocean Frenzy, but not sure I can justify paying twice as much for them as the Apex.