As Celia gently pointed out, the
stability of the boat has a lot to do with whose butt is in it.I have a canoe that scares almost every kayaker who gets in it, for about 5 minutes. There are boats that will turn turtle easily,but they are typically not what a beginner would consider.
Islander’s Capella 169
– Last Updated: Mar-28-08 11:30 PM EST –
This is a not super twitchy but a reasonably responsive boat, so I can see it seeming terribly daunting at first. I spent two days in a training session in one of its smaller cousins this last summer, the 161. While the boat was absolutely solid, it would have felt a lot less so to me when I was starting out. (And I was hopping in and out of it in a couple of feet of water, without use of my paddle for support.)
I was rather amused by his above reply about people not understanding the risks of the water well enough. It took me elapsed 3 yrs to get a reliable roll due to a tendency to claustrophobia when under the boat, and I paddled with an overly loose skirt for over a year after that because I was concerned I'd not react well in a real capsize. I probably "get" the panic part better than this guy does if they were able to talk him into doing a wet exit with a (sounds like) neo skirt in an early lesson.
To Islander, reasonable awareness of risk is one thing. Spreading around an uncomfortable day on the water as a necessary part of paddling is different, and not really helpful. I'll bet that if someone were to pull this post up in about a year, you'll be pretty red-faced. Or you'll have sold the boat and taken up another sport.
another know it all
Sorry if I gave the impression that I had an unpleasant day. I was just trying to impart some personal information for another beginner because I want this person not to forget how to wet exit a kayak.
You get so caught up in getting in the boat that it’s real easy to panic.
I don’t have time to argue with trolls who are intent on taking my comments out of context.
I think it would be very unwise to wait three years to develop a roll and other basic skills.
In fact the only time i tipped over my 169 was when I was practicing advanced bracing while leaning the yak on the edge. yeah i knew it would probably slip under me. then i tried to roll it up but it went over so fast i didn’t catch enough air.
you don’t know me or my experience or my balance.
you are just a selfish know it all who has no comprehention if you think Im selling my yak.
It nice to meet such an expert, oh wait we are on the internet.
All I said was a narrow boat was very tippy and you have gone off on some selfish tanget about how great a kayaker you are on the internet.
finally
This only reason I posted what I did is because I don’t want the OP or anyone else experiencing what that other beginner did. i thought it was a blessing it happened to him and not me, because i was so caught up in getting started that it could have happened.
Narrow kayaks are tippy, getting in the kayak is the most difficult and the most likely time you will tip over.
keep in mind how to exit at all times. the wind can knock you over.
i have no idea what this other poster is talking about, i usually don’t post on the internet, so good bye and good luck!
i hope this helped… its already nice and warm down this way so ill be out enjoying the water…
Capella 169
– Last Updated: Mar-29-08 12:54 AM EST –
I always enjoy Celia's posts, even when I disagree with her. She is always courteous, helpful, and is knowledgeable. I wish I could say the same for the above poster.
I think the problem may come from your ownership of the Capella 169. I don't know anybody who would recommend that boat for a beginner. Perhaps there was a good deal on it or a closeout? Why would a beginner buy such a boat?
There is a reason why the 169 is no longer in the Capella line, although it was named Capella. It was an older and totally different hull design - I owned one and finally had to give it up because it was a bear to handle and keep upright for me, even though it was 22" wide. It had a very sharp bow and a very loose stern and a stability curve that kept me always on my toes.
On the other hand, the Capella 167 (which is narrower) and the 173 are completely different hulls and an appropriately sized beginner should have no problem with them. Although the 167 is narrower than the 169, the 167 is WAY more stable and manageable. The 169 is a good boat for an expert, like Ben Lawry, who uses it. A beginner is likely to be swimming, and terrified if the conditions worsen.
But I agree that such a large person should be looking at wider beamed boats for stability. I don't agree that a self rescue is a prerequisite to paddling, although a wet exit is.
Especially, I don't agree with personal attacks and name calling as a way to disagree. Why don't you take a fresh look at what you posted and take out the personal attacks.
Islanders
– Last Updated: Mar-29-08 7:18 AM EST –
don't know you. Having said that, we all make impressions from what we hear and read. You seem pretty sensitive about defending your arguments to the bitter end. Fact is everyone is different. As Celia pointed out, your center of gravity could be vastly different and as such your tendency for good initial balance and or acquired balance could vary greatly.
Of course if you are not paying attention you could tip over. Of course the wind could knock you over if you are not comfortable in windy situations, and one boat could be significantly tippier than another one for any given individual. I have a friend who cannot get into a boat without a paddle due to his stretching ability . I can pretty much jump into any boat except an ocean cockpit without a paddle but I have a lot of butt time and pretty good initial balance.
For what it is worth, and granted it is not worth much, your comments seem to reflect some pretty deep seated fears of entrapment and uncomfortableness with water. while we all appreciate a reminder every now and again about safety, most of us are quite aware that we cannot breathe under water and need to take appropriate steps to avoid doing so. Our choices in boats (after some time) reflect our comfortableness with dealing with the majority of the inherent hazards in this sport.
What I am trying to say in a very long winded way, is that one 22 inch boat could be very tippy to one person and stable as a rock to another. I have an 18 inch wide boat that is a bit tippy for about three minutes then I settle down just fine. Most surfski paddlers also have much narrower boats and a 22 inch boat would be a raft to them. Wind may affect one person differently because he or she does not automatically adjust their center of gravity well.
Again i appreciate the underlying comments about safety but you may want to rethink your own reasons for paddling because after what I read, I would not feel comfortable being out on the water with you as I am pretty confident I would have to at one point or another fish you out of the water or calm you down. Please don't get me wrong. I am no daredevil. Healthy respect for the inherent risks is very good to keep you in check. Irrational fears are very bad as they restrict your abilities to think through issues so you can get on with it.
Good luck with your paddling. More butt time equals more confidence and respect of the inherent dangers and adaptation to deal with them. I hope you never sell your boat but I also hope you get over your what appears to be debilitating fears regarding kayaking.
Of course i could be completely wrong. What do I know? Just my opinion. I'm just a paddler like anyone else here with lots of opinions that probably don't mean anything to anyone else.
but at least I am definitely not a stuffy know it all like Celia. :) hehee
Paul
Time to…
– Last Updated: Mar-29-08 9:52 AM EST –
SactoBob, thanks for reminding that the 169 hull is a bit different from the current line. I don't think it remarkably alters anything I said, but it is kind to islander and, more importantly, other newbies reading this thread. It's a timely thought that it's worth taking time to find the right kayak.
Brazilbasil, yeah I can't imagine getting very far from shore with this poster. He/she seems not to have spent enough seat time to really get comfortable with paddling, and that's never easy. But I bet everyone had some time period in their early paddling where they were pretty unnerving to be with. From what you've posted, I suspect that I'd scare the heck out of you with my really poor skills in surf.
Frankly, looking again at the above I suspect a troll. It is probably best to let this one lie. If they are real and show up after getting some more seat time, I'm guessing it'll be with a different screen name. :-)
Well said Paul.I know several
people who know you and speak highly of your paddling skills.
We should run across each other one of these days.
Celia
I’d probably scare you in the surf! I’m the touring guy/pseudo greenland rolling wannabe. No real surf time for me and since my Dagger RPM max got ripped off I haven’t had another boat to play in the surf with and not sure what I would want to get anyway. the boat I am seriously looking at is the Wavesport Habitat and one day I just may get it to go play in the ocean as well as a class 2 or 3 occasionally.
Paul
Ok - maybe
I swear I recall your talking about some time in surf, and I should point out that while we started some WW last year my only day in true crashing ocean surf ended up being one wet exit after another. I could ride sideways all day long, but every time I actually tried to surf the Vela caught an edge and I was over. (The Vela was maybe not the best choice for my first try at 4 ft plus surf.) And at that point I didn’t have the calm to stay in the boat for a roll in moving or turbulent stuff - hopefully I’ll find the WW has helped with that.
Anyway - I am seriously thinking of taking a drive south this coming winter for some paddling. I’ve I’m around you I’ll give a yell and we can keep count of who has to rescue who the most. (I still bet I’ll win the betng-rescued count!)
C’mon down.
– Last Updated: Mar-29-08 9:09 PM EST –
Maybe we can make it up there one summer also.
I did 4 star training in haystacks and clapotis at tybee Island last year and have done surf training at Folly Beach, I love to surf with the Night heron but haven't been in really big water and not sure how well I would do there. Also if you remember I went down the Chattooga River with flatpick where I got to do some whitewater with adult supervison. Also did the whitewater Center in Charlotte for a day and that was fun! I was in a pyranha burn I think for that. But it has all been sporadic. No sustained surf training or episodes over any real time so every time I encounter it I feel like I am starting all over again.
Paul