Straps
One thing I have learned hauling many boats of different types for the scouts is that a WHOLE lot of people who you think would know dont have the slightest clue as to how to use a ratchet strap correctly.
The only way a ratchet strap can crush the hull is if the user pushes it to far, not a equipment problem. To loosen a ratchet, open it all the way. To lock it in, close it all the way. Pull the excess through before you start cranking, you only need a wrap or webbing around the center to hold whatever you have. If there is 10 feet around the hub and the thing is stuck, then it isnt a equipment problem. Getting the webbing stuck in the teeth is how it gets frayed, again, not a equipment problem.
GOOD cam buckles will work well on a purpose built rack because the rack is doing the work.
I brought the daughters easky home about 300mi at highway speeds and through high wind areas on the roof rack of a Outback with ratchets.
jerks
I saw an REI employee basically do the same to another customer. This customer didn’t even have side rails. “Just put it on your roof and tie it down tight, you’re only going across town”.
what bridges?
never had a cam strap loosen
I’ve had the strap expand just a bit after getting wet, as rope might do. But I drive all sorts of roads with my kayak cartopped and have never had a cam strap loosen.
But if you’re not comfortable figuring them out, stick to ratchet straps.
things that go “bump” in the night
even when you know how to use them…
I've worked in construction for over 30 years and used industrial grade ratchet straps countless times for securing material loads and equipment on stake-side trucks, pallets, pickup beds, trailers. No question they are the best thing to use for such operations.
But I have never found a lighter grade strap of that sort that I would want to use for paddle craft. For one thing most ratchets come in pairs with the hooks on each end rather than having a continuous loop of the strap around the boat and racks. Relying on two interlocked hooks for the integrity of the mounting does not inspire confidence for me.
Plus they are finicky in crappy weather and so danged HEAVY! The average 1" x 10' ratchet strap weighs a full POUND! A 1" x 9' standard Thule strap with rubber guard weighs less than 6 ounces. When I paddle between shuttles I carry my straps, usually 4 of them. If I wanted to haul an additional 40 ounces of ballast (the differential between 4 Thules and 4 ratchets) I would prefer a liter of good wine.
bad move on salesperson’s part
There’s a negligent advice lawsuit just waiting to happen. You would think REI would recall that the predecessor to Patagonia had to file bankruptcy due to the product liability wrongful death suit that they lost due to a vendor employee adjudged to have given “incomplete” advice on the usage of a piece of climbing hardware at point of sale.
flying mattresses
Of course, almost weekly I see bozos hurtling down our area parkways with entire box spring, mattress and headboard sets from the local borax furniture outlets, the loads shifting crazily and nearly airborne as they strain the polypro binder twine that haphazardly guys them to the car. A king boxspring might do less harm than a flying kayak but I don’t want either coming at my windshield.
yes, I was a bit startled
On top of that, it was a cold windy day, and the salesperson suggested “why not hit a lake on the way home and try it out”?
makes me cringe
…to overhear salespeople giving really stupid advice on things that could turn out very badly. I used to manage a high end wilderness sports shop back in my late 20’s and was responsible for training all the staff. We made it very clear that they were NOT to give advice to customers on rock climbing, mountaineering, backpacking, kayaking or XC skiing while selling them intro gear, other than to direct them to the educational services we and others offered. We had in store seminars and as well as both free instructional classes and paid guided trips, all conducted by folks with certified expertise (and customers signed releases and notices of acknowledged implicit dangers in order to participate.)
You hear the same sort of thing in big box building material stores. I have often broken in on and corrected conversations in the electrical aisle where employees were giving dangerous and non-Code “advice” to clueless customers on wiring installations (I’ve been a licensed electrician and inspector for 34 years).
now that is scary
Using Rope Is Just Plain Stupid
A wide flat surface is much better than a narrow rope.
Cam-locks aren’t secure. They are easy to release.
If you can’t master the use of ratchets, by all means don’t use them.
The best way to use cam-locks is to have pressure keeping them tight. That helps to keep the cam Vibrating. Springs get old. I used bungees to keep tension on the strap.
Jack, I experiment all the time. I modify my toys to better suit me. One thing I don’t do is worship at the throne of tradition.
and
it shouldnt.
“Relying on two interlocked hooks for the integrity of the mounting does not inspire confidence for me.”
GOOD light ratchets have enough strap that you can loop each hook back on itself and go around a 1 inch bar for example and you will never lose it. A cam with hooks is no different. You fix the strap to a length, then if you hit bumps, it can come loose.
When I use a ratchet or cam on the trailer, the strap goes through the stake pocket, and gets hooked on the top of the pocket, same as a chain. If it does get loose, it has to bounce up and off.
I can tie rope, use cams, ratchets and still have lots of chain and knuckle busters. I like ratchets. Bottom line about hauling anything. As long as it wont come off and is legal, use what you want to and are comfortable with.
cam locks are fine
"tradition" is a strawman, there’s nothing traditional about cam straps. but if you don’t know how to use them, you probably should stick to what you do know how to use. and that goes for all of us.
I’m not big on rope and I know plenty of “expert” kayakers who shun rope. Why? I dunno, ask them.
More bad advice
When I purchased my first kayak from a major sporting goods store (Necky, Hurricane, Wilderness Systems, Ocean) I also purchased a MTI PFD.
The gal in charge of the kayak department told me it wasn’t necessary to wear the PFD. All I needed to do was carry it in the kayak.
canoeist, c-1, kayak for 40 years.
Not a single broken rope or failed knot in that time. Nothing fundamental against cam straps and the like, but I don't care to deal with them.
ok, I wasn’t saying experts don’t use
rope. I was saying I know experts who don't use rope. I don't think I said you were one of them.
Rope, cam straps, they both work. Ratchet straps work, with care. Each method is used because the users see tradeoffs and advantages. I see people almost exclusively using rope for front and rear tiedowns.
I'm not into telling everyone what the best method is, unless we're considering shrink-wrap.
that is the law…
and a very stupid one, in many states including Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. This despite the fact that I am not aware of ANYONE ever managing to retrieve and put on their PFD that was stored in their boat while in the water after a capsize. And despite the statistics that most fatalities occur to boaters not wearing them. To me it is as ludicrous as it would be to say it is legal to drive without your seatbelt on as long as there are seatbelts in the car. Or OK to ride a motorcycle bareheaded as long as a helmet is strapped to your rear rack.
I’ve Seen Things Come Flying Off
Of vehicles over the years. Once a ladder went sailing off a truck rack on a S Cal freeway. I’ve never seen an accident caused by things flying off though. I’m sure it can happen.
After thinking about it. I don’t think I’d use side bars to secure a kayak. If they were built to be used as a heavy duty rack wouldn’t they have crossbars? Not being a car guy, I don’t know. Seems to me a trailer would be the best and maybe to only option. But then I’m not a car guy.
Yup, your last statement is obvious !
But please don’t tell the newbies to follow what you do
Jack L