It’s been going on for decades
Sales drives design in a consumer society. In the 90’s the most prevalent plastic sea kayak was the Perception Sea Lion. Big solid plastic seat back guaranteed to complicate a rescue even if it didn’t pop out of place and land on the seat. Rudder line guides made out of electric wire clips that are guaranteed to slice 1/8" divots out ot your skin if you slip past it.
The Tsunamis with “day hatches” and no separating bulkhead .
The myriad of footbrace adjustments so people whose legs mysteriously change in length while paddling can change footbrace position while in the kayak!
and cupholders!
– Last Updated: Apr-12-16 11:51 AM EST –
if we were in different times, kayaks would also have ashtrays.
Ashtrays
Slush, that’s very funny. And you’re right.
I really enjoy sea kayaks.
I was out this past weekend paddling in a group with a Caribou, Cetus, Gulfstream, and Romany. We practiced maneuvers, then used them winding through some narrow salt marsh creeks, and just had a fun day in in what was reported to be 25 to 30 knot winds.
If you have the ability and desire to learn some skills, maneuvering sea kayaks is fun. It can be almost an art form trying to perfect your paddle position, blade angles, body movement, all in attempts to perfect a smooth, quiet, yet quick and effective maneuver.
There will always be a larger group that says a more traditionally-sized sea kayak is too difficult to maneuver for them, or not stable enough, etc. Then there are sea kayakers, who scratch their heads wondering what all the fuss is about. It’s quite a little dance…hardly a difficulty.
The art, beauty, and capability of full length sea kayaks in practiced hands is one of the finest experiences of my lifetime. You get to new levels patiently and deliberately, but the entire journey is quite an experience. The only way to be out there witnessing the best of sea kayaking is to join in, and generally speaking, good sea kayakers on challenging trips are out with others in sea kayaks. You want to travel efficiently through wind, waves, and current, harness the power of waves, handle waves washing over you and your kayak, and be able to bring a reasonably playful nature out of your hull. Your perfect sea kayak is a wonderful conglomeration of compromises. And I’m going to suggest not compromising in a direction of leaving the sea kayak category.
So many posts on this board are from folks who want the best kayak they can use for the very occasional fair-weather sheltered paddle. It’s refreshing to read a post from someone where it seems there could be potential for sea kayaking. As such, I hope you look to experience some different sea kayak models in the range of what I listed at the top.
Good luck.
when I was a wee kid
– Last Updated: Apr-12-16 4:27 PM EST –
in the 70s, a friend of mine's dad had a stationary bike with an ashtray on the handlebars in his basement (70's den). He said his dad liked to ride it and smoke cigars while he watched the evening news. Then he would have a drink.
You see movies from that age and there are ashtrays and people smoking everywhere.
I thought you guys were kidding
when USB ports on a kayak were mentioned.
Then I did a Google search and came up with the Loon 120 and its workdeck with USB.
Sometimes I don’t want to know what I don’t know.
My Guesses
There’s good advice that has been given here. Maybe after some lessons/instruction, you’ll then buy something like a used 15’ boat, decent for sea kayaking. After a year or two, you’ll sell that and get maybe a used 17’ kayak with 21" beam. You’ll really notice a difference. Then after a year or two you’ll get yet another boat, maybe sell the old one or maybe get one more for rock gardening, so you’ll have 2 boats. This keeps happening (like getting ski equipment). Many of us have gone this route.
As the man asked, “Why do you have 3 boats?” Answer, “Because I sold the other one”.
Yeah…
Let’s go out on the water to enjoy nature with full capacity to get selfies with silly looks.
Makes me feel better
Yeah, I feel better about my decision. I know it won’t be something I get overnight but it’s what I am most interested in. I wish I could explain it and it makes NO SENSE to me but I keep watching those videos out on the NZ coasts, Northeast US, Canada, and the UK and that to me seems pretty exciting. Not saying I want to jump into the swells day 1 but when I think of kayaking, I think of that. I dunno. I’m weird I guess. Oh well, I guess that was bound to happen over time.
seriously?
– Last Updated: Apr-12-16 5:24 PM EST –
Wow.
I admit to having a fantasy about an encased tablet on deck, all of the charts in the world at my disposal. But you know what they say about fantasy, sometimes it's best to leave it as fantasy.
I have a feeling that Celia is on-target when it comes to the "functionality" of that feature.
I have two 14’ boats
One Tsunami 140 and a Manitou 14… Moved up to these from an 8.5’ to a Pelican 10’ to a 12’ Liquid Logic and am happy with both.
We moved out of powerboating as a family with two kids aged 6 and 9 and wanted to continue some form of boating and fell into kayaking. The kids used the 8.5’ and 10’ for a while and moved into Prodigy XS’s which they paddle much better.
Boats are a compromise in every aspect. For us, it was price, storage, ability to haul 4 boats, and a balance of speed, efficiency, and safety. For casual 5-10 mile paddles around lake erie both of the bigger boats fit our needs; at least our needs for now.
The Tsunami is mine; the Manitou is my wife’s but I have paddled it a few times. They are very similar boats but I tend to like the WS a bit better. They go the same speed given the same effort and are both comfortable. The Necky is the more maneuverable of the two but both are nice boats. I’m 40 years old and in good shape but a backband really hurts me so I like the high seat back and adjustable seat.
I haven’t tried rolling and don’t have much interest so I can’t comment there. I can get in either of the boats with a paddle float pretty easy so for me the seat is a keeper.
If you find a deal on either of these boats they are leaps and bounds from a Pelican. Although neither can match a longer “real” sea kayak in speed and efficiency they do a nice job and meeting a lot of features in the middle.
Good post
I started with the rec kayaks from Dick’s, outfitting a family of four with varying degrees of interest. Can’t fault the big box stores, for probably %75 of the people who buy them that is all they will ever want or need and I still have a few for Introducing people to being on the water in a SINK or taking friends sandbar hopping on shallow creeks.
But almost immediately I felt the desire for bigger water and got a pair of Tsunami’s for the wife and I. 14’x 24" with skirts for challenging waters. Learned to edge and do rescues. Now we’ e both moved on to longer, skinnier and lighter boats.
Some people feels it makes the most sense to just start with the high end boat and be done with it, but I have enjoyed every step of the journey. If I had started with Tsunami’s I would not have taken my kids, or my parents, kayaking. If I hadn’t moved on to better boats I would have gotten bored with the sport.
By the way, under no circumstances buy a paddle from the big box stores. But that’s a whole nother thread.
and good followup
I progressed pretty much the same way as you did. When I got started with a rec kayak I had plenty of other interests and money already committed to them. No way could I have afforded to jump in with both feet and my wallet. Along the way some of my best memories were made in my first two rec kayaks, and there are times when I wish I’d have kept my last one.
Money is a big obstacle to getting started in a true sea kayak and all the gear. That doesn’t mean one can’t work up to it and enjoy it along the way.
I guess this is why I’m protective of people getting started in rec boats.
Find a true kayak outfitter
You need to find a true kayak outfitter that offers instruction and demo boats. A one day course is money well spent in my opinion. It may require you to travel to a more coastal location to find the right outfitter but maybe not. I have a Dagger Alchemy 14.0L and it is a very versatile boat. I paddle it on small stream / rivers, larger rivers, lakes, and coastal. If you don’t want to go to full sea kayak I would suggest looking at similar boats. I have 4 kayaks (whitewater, 11.5’ rec boat, 16’9" sea kayak and the Alchemy) the 14’ Alchemy gets the most use of all of them.
Sat in a Focus 150
The REI down the street from the hotel has a Focus 150. Let me tell you, it feels so much better than a rec kayak. I didn’t feel claustrophobic, I know what people mean about connected.
You don’t sit in it…it feels like you wear it.
Yeah, I think touring /sea kayak is the way to go.
maybe not so nice in the water
The Focus kayaks have had some bad reports for handling on the water. You might want to read up on people’s reactions to them in reviews and an older forum string before getting too focused on that model:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1732301
Need to try others
– Last Updated: Apr-26-16 11:48 PM EST –
Yeah, I saw it doesn't have the best reviews. But I like the feel of the touring kayak than the other rec kayaks. It's a bit narrower, but wasn't at all uncomfortable.
I still need to try others before I buy.
when you try a better touring boat
You’ll notice a magnitude of difference similar to what you experienced when you tried the focus after trying the big box rec boats.
Shop used. You don’t know what you don’t know. Why spend extra money finding that out?
Having a hard time finding used
I’ve narrowed it down from reviews to 3 touring style boats as a first, Alchemy 14.0L, Journey 14, and Expression 15 I want to try out. I’m really digging Current Designs but the $$$ is a bit much for a starting kayak. I’m okay with dropping a $800 kayak from my Jeep accidentally, not okay dropping a $3500 composite.
I don’t mind shopping used but I can’t seem to find 2 things: (1)a decent touring kayak for sale near me (within 150 miles) or (2) a seller that isn’t asking 95% of new price for a boat several years old with considerable wear and tear.
If there is any resource you guys know that I don’t, let me know. I’m still new at this.
patience
– Last Updated: Apr-27-16 10:33 PM EST –
I have a lot of experience buying and selling used kayaks so I'll share what tips I can. When watching for deals on used boats you just have to be patient and check daily, Using an app that will automatically forward you any new ads for kayaks in your area simplifies the process.
You have to call IMMEDIATELY when you see a likely offering and show up as soon as you can arrange to get there with a roof rack, straps and cash. If a boat is desirable but overpriced, that means there will be not as many people interested in it in the first place, so make a lower offer and see how they respond. They may say no at first but end up calling you a week or two later if they have not much action from the ad. At that point you may be able to get it for a reasonable price (which is 25% to 30% off new in my neck of the woods if a newer boat and 50% off it's a 10 year old model.)
This time of year people tend to list boats for higher prices than they do later in the season. I suspect it's because they are anxious to buy another boat or other toy and hope to optimize their cash in hand. If you can wait until later, once people have already invested in whatever, they may be more apt to take what you are willing to offer.
Also bear in mind that a used boat sale may often include a decent paddle, PFD and even a skirt. These could cost you between $150 and $300 on average if you were to buy them separately, And sales tax in many states is 5% or more (7% in my county) which adds $70 to a new $1000 boat.
when you look at used plastic boats, inspect them for dry or cracked looking plastic (scuffs on the hull are normal and don't matter). Make sure the keel is straight a flip the boat over to make sure the hull isn't oil-canned with flat areas or dents from bad storage. The dents don't "pop out" and can affect performance. Check that any rubber hatch covers are not dry or brittle or cracked. Older ones can be hard to find and even newer ones are not cheap. Cracked or broken seats can be a problem and hard to replace but don't worry too much about broken or uncomfortable seat backs because replacing them with a backband is relatively simple and a better option than many stock seat arrangements.