New Paddler's

For those who did not like my answer.
Sorry for my blunt answer.

About paddling experience, I better explain with a paddle than a keyboard.

Yeah, Well…
yeah… You can get your paddle and keep paddling alone and minimize time on the keyboard. This way you won’t have to deal with folks’ BS. Or, maybe give up a little paddling time and spend some of it interacting with folks. You may come to realize your perspective is not the one and only and that any divergence from your view doesn’t make it immediately BS.



sing

Are we in the same club?

– Last Updated: Nov-27-04 6:40 PM EST –

With real respect, I can't believe we are in the same ADK club chapter. There are great people and they try to have folks do the very things you say.

However, much to our dismay, several folks with allot of experience do not model the best equipment, don't model cold water immersion gear, and do not require people to have any skills, equipment, clothing, staying with the group, etc. On many of the trips complete novices show up and are at a complete loss about everything. Assisted rescues are not frequently practiced by most folks, many have not learned how to hold ontoa paddle and boat in rough conditions, have not knowledge of cold shock and hypothermia, and many are not screened for trips.

This is not a criticism, just pointing out that despite many efforts to provide training, skills, rolling, guidance, etc. many many of the paddlers just do not wish to be told what to do period. Pleople are doing the best they can, but there is a real
limit as to what folks will accept it apears. I am growing to understand that this is just human nature, especially so with middle aged and up (mostly not all) paddlers with love of outdoors. There are those willing to learn skills, come to each other's aid, stay together, be more aware of dangers, but so far a minority at best. Feel free to disagree with me, not meant personally in any way whatsoever.

A little help from my friends

– Last Updated: Nov-27-04 8:42 PM EST –

As a result largely of help from folks here on the forum I have learned allot as to why it is so hard to have things work well for mixing beginners, novices and more experienced folks.

One person reflected on how when people start kayaking they are idealistic, romantic about what it takes, get in stable boats and have no prior knowledge of the real dangers of the water. It looks to them that a bunch of critical preachy control freaks are ready to hassle them, and of course there are some unfortunately.

Another person reminded me that bigger water and conditions REQUIRES groups to depend on each other, so the idea of only relying on individual responsibility does not quite cut it. An ignorant beginner insisting on learning from a group without willingness to listen and learn forces the experienced folks to take care of them in a crisis, risk themselves, and threatens to ruin the synergy of a group by unknowingly being "takers". It is not that experienced folks look down, are not generous, just it is really impossible to just let beginners come along in conditions freezing water lack of clothing gear and feel relaxed knowing that the smalest thing happening and nasty outcome.

I am pretty much concluding there are real limits with some clubs and groups of paddlers accepting the need to work together in anything but a show go and hope for the best mode.

IMHO Friends and small groups of like minded like skilled folks gravitate together precisely because they value to need to help each other and see it is in their own benefit to do so. A number of clubs have found the core energy to move beyond this. It would be nice to hear how they were able to transcend these difficulties.

The team approach also works with
lower level paddlers.



When we invite other or lower level paddlers to join us, the “invitor” becomes the trip host. All intending to go are asked to RSVP to that person.



If we have not paddled with them, we’ll ask them to tell us what type boat they paddle, how long they’ve been paddling, and what professionally given classes they’ve taken. This will allow us to tell those who are obviously not qualified for a trip that they should go on a different one.



We then conduct a briefing and boat inspection prior to the launch. No bulheads or float bags?—you get to stay on the beach. Never did a wet exit?—demonstrate one or stay behind.



The “team” will then split up with some taking the “point” positions, some as sweep, and some scattering themselves to stay near the less skilled paddlers.



As long as we are all thinking similarly, it seems to work.

Long Ago on a Distant Planet
My wife bought me a beat-up aluminum canoe.

I paddled that on quiet rivers and ponds for a few years, pretty much self taught, then decided I wanted to paddle whitewater.

So I signed up for a weekend class with the local AMC chapter.

We spent the first day on a pond going over basic strokes and manuvers. I must not have aquired too many bad habits paddling alone as I didn’t have to unlearn/relearn much.

The second day we did an easy class II run. My group was four students in tandems two instructors in their tandem and a “safety boater” in her new solo. One of the student tandems, a Dagger Dimension, was a big steady boat. Great for first timers. The other, a Dagger Caption, was much more responsive. We students quickly renamed it the “Capsize”.

We spent the day working on eddy turns and ferrying, swapping boats and partners quite a bit. I remember taking one of the instructors for a swim in the “Capsize”. Man that water was COLD! We dumped into a large eddy so it was an easy to swim to shore.

Then in a rapid called Pinball our “safety boater” dumped. The students paddling the Caption tried to grab a water bottle floating by and they dumped. Our instructors were rescueing our safety boater, one of the students recued herself and the Caption while the other studnet floated down the river. He was on his back in perfect defensive swimming position but he wasn’t trying to swim. So me and my partner took off after him, no idea how we were going to rescue him. I figured at least we wouldn’t lose him. I still laugh every time I pass the cliff wall were we finaly landed him. I laugh harder when I look at the nice sandy beach across the river.

The end of this run for newbies is the takeout above a tough little class III gorge. For some reason my partner and I couldn’t seem to bring the boat into the landing. One of the instructors banged his knee pretty hard running out into the river to grab our boat and stop us from running the gorge.

I learned a lot about paddling that weekend but the details I remember are.

When the newbie dumps you in the icewater, you grin and bear it.

If you only have one safety boater, try to have a competent safety boater.

When your instructor runs 20’ out into the river to stop you, you probably didn’t want to run the next rapid after all.

Affinity
By this time of year, we paddle with friend(s)who have dry suits and at least our level of rescue skills.



Fortunately both my wife and I greatly enjoy paddling. We have equivalent gear and boats.



Not all are as fortunate.

Interesting answers.
I trust your answers are fair and usefull.

Mine are mostly hints to survival skills.

And in a very personnal way.

My safety, is trusting no one but me.

My confort, is travelling light.

See, there is little hope I can help your community.



It’s not that I do not want to communicate.

Thru the Internet, it’s just going to be like the TV crap you’re overfed, with some rapids horror story, with a happy ending.

My rapids, can make a canoe as flat as a flat fish, with all stuff lost forever. They are killers, I mostly portage, and rarely run.



Please, go outdoors.

Do take chances little by little.

Mostly listen to you, and when it comes to take a chance: Only trust you.

There is no limit traveling with a canoe, as long as your apprasail is right.



Your life is your only wortwhile issue.










Nice Post…
I follow what you’re saying. It’s also nice to identify with most of it. :slight_smile:



sing