I agree. I saw multiple posts about people saying this probably isn’t very well suited for fishing. I’m not into fishing myself, but find it strange that this has rod holders. Thanks for the info on classes offered in west Michigan. I’ll have to look into this further!
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you wrote “it is the king again”
What does that mean?
Even when stationary, by having an active blade in the water will help with stability.
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As others here have already done, I would encourage you not to quit on this too soon. That said, I think that online coaching for technique has pretty severe limitations. I would offer the following thoughts, which are basically all aimed at safety:
- Accept that you’re going to capsize and swim as you learn. That in turn implies: 1) protect yourself from cold exposure by proper immersion clothing and not putting yourself in water too cold for your clothing, and 2) have highly reliably rescue immediately at hand–either an experienced, rescue-competent partner, and/or absolutely reliable self-rescue abilities. Based on your self-described skill level, you may want to avoid solo paddling in this boat until your skills improve
- Get competent instruction. A good instructor–in even just one session–can dramatically accelerate your skill development
- Paddle in appropriate venues. Until your ability to manage the boat improves, paddle in more sheltered water, with immediately available “escapes”
Good luck. Almost all of us have been where you are.
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A day or weekend class is always a good idea if just getting started. You’ll learn the basics, learn about safety, about how to get back into the boat if you capsize, and avoid picking up bad habits.
A 22" kayak is not that unusual for a sea kayak. More seat time will soon allow you to feel comfortable in the boat.
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Keep your nose over the center of the boat. Separate your body movements at the hips. Hips swivel up and down from side to side, torso rotates. That and just put time in the boat. You will master it. 22" is actually quite wide. It will just take a little time. Master it first, then try to edge it.
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I’ve seen one review on this kayak where the reviewer questioned why they would even have rod holders on this kayak. To each there own. I suppose the designers of the kayak might like to fish out of their touring boats…who knows?
Touring Kayak, 22” wide, with Rod Holders?
Edit: Maybe they double as Beer Can Holders and the Rod Holders are inserts.
Try paddling it with some weight in it. Then it will settle down. Paddle it 10x near shore and build your confidence. Then make a decision.
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How tall are you and how much do you weigh? This information could help quite a bit with getting on the right track and knowing if this is the right boat for you.
This kayak weighs in at 44 lbs. and has a load capacity of 330lbs according to the BKC website. I paddle a FeelFree Aventura 125 which is 12’-6" and has a capacity of 350 lbs. I’m 5’-7 and weigh 170 and it seems to be just right. It is important to have the right boat for your size and weight. Keep at it and you’ll get it!
I think your kayak is 26 inches wide. The other is 22 inches.
There is an instinctual balance response that most everyone needs to unlearn to become competent in a sea kayak.
If you were sitting at a school desk, dropped a pencil and it rolled off to your left, and you leaned clear out to your left to grab it, you would put your right leg up against the desk top to prevent you from falling over to your left.
If I held onto your kayak in waste deep water so that it wouldn’t tip at all, and someone walked up to your right side and gave a solid shove to your left at your shoulders, you would maintain your balance with the top of your right leg against the thigh brace, and sit back up.
Those thigh braces are fixed points in the kayak. They don’t move in relation to your legs. Almost everyone’s instinctual brain treats them that way, even though the entire kayak is rotating freely on the water.
In the above scenario, if I don’t hold onto your kayak, and someone walked up to your right side and gave you a solid shove to your left at your shoulders, unless you have retrained your instincts for boat balance, you will do the same thing as above. You would try to maintain balance with the top of your right leg against the thigh brace. Only this time, the entire kayak would simply rotate with you, and you would actually be pulling the boat over with your knee by doing this.
What do you do to counteract your knee pulling up on the right thigh brace in this scenario? Nothing. You can’t. Even if you do everything else right, it can result in a slow motion unnecessary capsize to your left. You don’t counteract the knee coming up into the thigh brace. You simply don’t bring your right knee into the thighbrace to hold yourself up. It will capsize you if the push was hard enough. This is the instinct that needs to be developed. When any something makes you feel off balance as though you’re tipping left, you have to get rid of the instinct of bringing up that right knee to hold yourself from tipping further left.
What do you do with that shove to the left? You allow your body to flail off to the left while leaving your hips level and your right knee unengaged. You counter the leftward body momentum with your paddle out to your left on top of the water in a brace orientation. The instant your leftward momentum ceases, you engage your left leg under the thigh brace, lift your left leg and hip swiftly (often called hip-flick), and then, as if in one fluid motion, bring your body and head back over the kayak as if it’s fluidly following the hip flick back up.
I would say to definitely practice edging and recovery deliberately, rather than waiting for it to develop organically. There’s still going to be some disconnect between intentional practice and when it happens when not expected. But you’ll progress through your learning curve much more quickly.
Learning this will allow you to relax through waves and movements back and forth of your hull within your secondary stability. It’s a big step towards a much higher level of competency in a kayak. I’d say it makes everything about the sport more enjoyable.
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Is it your opinion you can teach yourself these things or is it absolutely necessary to take lessons?
While you are starting and getting used to a ‘tippy’ boats balance point, toss a couple big water bladders (or water filled dry bags in the front and back hatches. The more weight down low the better.
The boat will sit lower and feel more stable. Also, lowering the seat helps, even if it is just temporarily removing a 1/2 inch of foam.
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I am unsure who you were directing this question to, but for my part I have some informational answers to the question.
YES! You can.
But you will learn a LOT faster and have much more satisfaction if you get good instruction from someone who can both do them AND teach them. As in any field, teaching is a separate talent than doing. Some folks can preform various skills and not be able to teach well and that goes for all fields of skill, kayaking included.
Myself as an example: I started kayaking only about 5 years ago. Because of where I am and my work load I was 100% unable to find instruction nearby and unable to afford the time and/or the cost of classes in places 100-1400 miles from me. So I used youtube and also I became a member of “Dancing with the Sea” which proved to be the best money I ever spent in my endeavors to learn to use kayaks well. Another that is very good in “Online Sea Kayaking” which is out of the UK.
I am addicted to kayaking to a point I am on the water 5-6 days a week when the water is unfrozen (only 7-8 months in Wyoming per year) and I do about 4 hours each work day before I start work and usually 10-14 hours on Saturdays and about 6-8 on Sundays. So in 5 years I have accumulated many hundreds of hours in the seat of various kayaks. Now I am teaching students myself (to what level I can’t really say because I have no one else to measure myself to, so I openly call myself the “Kayak-Kindergarten teacher”)
All that said, I have now taught about 30 other people how to paddle kayaks. And what I find reveling is that I can bring a new student who had NO time in a kayak, and is borrowing one from me along with paddle, PFD and in some cases wet suits, and my crash course is a weekend class of 12 hours on Saturday and 6 hours on Sunday (after church, which I often can’t miss because I am the teacher there too) In that 18 hours I can and I have brough t students to a level of ability that took me 3 years to get to learning on my own. And I am not even sure I am all that good of an instructor. (I did teach personnel for several decades in Military, and in Security Fields, so teaching is something I have a LOT of time in but only a few years in the field of kayaking)
Looking back ---- to quantify the value of teaching:
If I add up my hours over the last 4 years only instead of 5 at a minimum of 16 hours per work weeks X 8 months that’s 576 hours per year X4 (for 4 years total) it’s 2304 hours. And to that I add my weekend times of 2178 hours, And then my camping trips at around 585 hours it comes to something close to 5065 hours I experience for me. (and that number is estimated on the low side) If I can bring a new student to let say…1/3 of that skill level in 18 hours it means the instruction of 18 hours of dedicated work is equal to about 1688 hours of self-teaching and making all your own mistakes. Simply math shows that the value is over 99% of time spent on your own is going to give you the same increase in skills as .5% of that time with a GOOD instructor.
It makes THAT much difference.
Personally I was not able to get any 1 on 1 instruction because of my location and my work load.
But if anyone can get GOOD instruction for a few days when starting out, it’s going to net you years worth of a head start over the do-it-yourself type of learning.
A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Regular people have to make those mistakes themselves. Fools can’t learn , no matter what.
If you think about it, good kayaking techniques were learned by doing it wrong a hundred ways until someone figures out how to do it right. The money you pay in both instruction fees and in time missed from work and gas/food/lodging is probably far less then the time you take to learn all the wrong ways yourself first, before you learnt he right ways. You are paying for the ability to learn from the mistakes of others. In the military I told my troops. “The lessons we teach here were all written in blood”. Most of the paddling sports are not near as dangerous, but the principal of learning from the mistakes of others is still valid.
Yes you can learn it all on your own with no personally instruction. Absolutely you can.
But do you have the fanatical dedication to do it? Why would you want to?
In my case it was not a want, but a need to if I wanted to learn at all, but I am also a LONG way from any good instruction.
Those I could contact could not be bothered and those that did seem like they wanted to teach were all over 1000 miles away (some were 1600 miles away) which is a long trip to get an 8 to 16 hour class.
And if you do have that level of fanatical dedication, and if you can afford the price, it’s probable you’ll enjoy your kayaking a LOT more starting out in 18-24 hours of good foundational skill building, so you can learn a lot more on your own.
Learning from the mistakes of others is wise ,and you should if you possibly can.
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@szihn, I agree with your perspective. We became members of the forum around the same time. We each had different goals, but we’ve both grown exponentially during that time, largely due to the other members sharing personal knowledge and experience.
While many more exeperienced members remain quiet, it’s the collective shared experiences of many that add up to a wealth of informtion. Some of the information conflicts, then it’s up to our own intuition to test, compare, and adapt the data to our own situation. Your lack of time in the seat is made up for by your desire to learn and grow, but most of all, you then share that which works for you.
The value of collaboration is exemplified in Paul’s videos demonstrating how to fabricate a Greenland paddle from common lumber. Rather than offering critical rebukes, Brian added his expert knowledge which helped make the project more successful. That thread not only spurred interest in the Greenland design but inspired a sense of enablement, as other members shared their experiences and still others took up tools to build a paddle.
Despite my many years of swinging the Kalliste paddle, I believe your feedback helped me to better understand that paddle, as well as paddling technique in general. Although my appreciation for the Greenland paddle doesn’t match your level of enthusiasm, our discussions gave me a better understanding of the art of hand powered boating. You helped me realuze that it isn’t so much the paddle that matters but how you use the features for an advantage. You possess the pioneer spirit of extracting the most from what you have, rather than trying to seek the best. Whether its a frail stick or a fat, heavy white water paddle, you will make it work.
As one member explained about the impending troubles of the Pelican brand, that product fills a niche. We all don’t need or even want a Gucci boat. Those elite craft also fill a special niche, but all boats don’t have to feel like riding the edge of a straight razor. Skirting the edge of a wave or sitting high and dry without the fear of being pitched into the sea is a personal preference. Whether we learn the craft by trial and error or attend a breeding school for future kayaking bums. Learning the skill base by trial and error is the best part of the journey; learning at your own pace can be the most rewarding part of the boating experience. Small lessons learned early on from that collective shared experience make our personal growth come about faster and much safer.
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Lots of good advice. Your comfort and skill wil reflect time in your boat. Keep going and you will get better. If you don’t lose your anxiaty remember that you are supposed to be enjoying this expeeriance and get a different boat.
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This is good, simple advice. Temporarily remove any seat padding that makes you sit higher in the kayak, even if it means sitting on the cockpit floor. That can give you a little extra stability to get over that initial tippy feeling, and you will probably be able to add the padding back before long.