Some people did get unreasonably bent out of shape but what you need to be told isn't necessarily what you want to hear!
Anyway, it isn't the burden of the people you ask for advice to spend a lot of time figuring out the "subtle" nuances of your very-hard-to-read post!
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subtle_paddler: "I thought that was evident to anyone who read my entire post"
Your post was so bloody hard to read and so disorganized that nothing is very "evident".
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subtle_paddler: "I thought I made it clear that I know nothing about the sport"
This makes any other statement you make about the "sport" suspicious.
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subtle_paddler: "I know nothing about the ranking system other then the accepted written descriptions"
The ranking of particular rivers is very hard to understand and use without local knowlege. Not so much for class I-II but for class III and above. There are also potential hazards that are not accounted for in the rankings.
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subtle_paddler: "I'm fully aware just from watching film that a guided raft is much different than a solo kayak."
But you also "know nothing about the sport"!
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subtle_paddler: "I thought my remark about going with people who were more experienced was a wise thing to say and do"
But you don't know anything about the sport! Anyway, many people think this and it's isn't safe nor is it correct.
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subtle_paddler: "as efficiently and inexpensively as possible"
"possible" doesn't mean or imply safely! It implies "rashness" (especially being said by someone who knows nothing about the sport).
Anyway, a club will be the best way to do this safely and inexpensively. And it looks like these guys are a good place to start (your link):
easy question That’s easy. I’d tell them to 1) save up their money, (a LOT of money), then 2) I’d proceed to advise them how to go about getting their private pilot’s license, the most INEXPENSIVE AND EFFICIENT way possible. I’d then tell them to take lessons from an instructor who knows how to do it, if they’re lucky enough to have one in their local area. And if they were willing to only fly with other pilots, they could skip step 2.
Minimum I'd suggest based on our first season of whitewater:
1) Plan to spend at least a day a week on the water for a season, as you are ready for actual whitewater think about two days if you have to travel a distance. One evening a week working on flat skills and the other trying them out in something moving.
2) Get lessons on flatwater paddling skills then further lessons on dealing with class 1 and low level 2. Find a club or local outfit that is offering classes in an indoor pool over the winter for the preliminary work.
3) Assume you should always have a group for running any rivers - join a club and take advantage of whatever training they have. There are no shortcuts to having companions in whitewater.
4) W/no prior time in a boat, figure on it taking a season just to get the basics down and be happy if you are doing class 2 well at the end of the first season.
5) Don't even set a timeline for class 3 until you have had decent seat time in 1 and 2.
As to discriminating what is what and choosing where to paddle, that is something to be learned from instructors on the river. Book reading isn't going to make it nearly as clear as being there.
Rolling is a core skill and it is impossible to predict how long that will take you. If you are a natural it could take as little as a lesson or two, if you are at the other end of the spectrum it could take more like most of the first season just to get it reliable in flat water. And even if does come easily to you in flat water, the time it could take to be useful enough to get you past class 2 could be a lot longer. It is highly variable person to person.
Also, the length of your season is an issue. Up here in the northeast the whitewater season tends to be fairly long because there are planned releases of water from dams. But if they don't have that in your part of the country and you are planning on Mother Nature, your season could be just several weeks in the spring. That would have the effect of reducing the overall time available to learn, so would increase the number of times a week you'd need to work in season as well as how hard you have to work in winter pool sessions in order to have a given skill level by its end.
I hate to admit it, but unless you run into one of the old-fashioned macho types whitewater paddlers are often more supportive than a lot of sea kayakers. But you have to be willing to accept that you don't have a clue, be quiet and really take guidance to get the most out of that. While you may say it, I don't have the impression that this is how you prefer to act.
Learn to roll. It doesn't always "work" but it's the best method when it does. I'd say, if you can't learn how to roll, you should not be paddling a kayak in WW. Rolling is concidered a basic WW kayaking skill.
Celia's advice is very good (as is typical) but much of it was mentioned four days ago! (Ignore the wacky posts).
You should talk to the club you mentioned and ask them!
One issue is that no one here as any idea of what your physical condition is. There should be obvious concerns with you being 70+ years old.
"And if they were willing to only fly with other pilots" --> The analogy in WW would be a big raft. In a kayak, you are always flying solo.
I’d never believe it if I didn’t see it You’re trolling in 10 feet of crystal clear water with a 125 horse outboard, using 75 pound flourescent orange test line, and a dead minnow. And yet you’re still reeling 'em in!
(Try it in February though, you’ll have to hone your technique a little. They get used to being fished in winter and get much harder to hook.
Just remember the rules, it’s catch and release only.
rapid progression As I said in an earlier post, if your goal is to gain experience in a hurry, I would consider a multiday beginner kayak course at a recognized outdoor school on a dam-controlled river such as NOC. Endless River Adventures also offers excellent private instruction in the Nantahala area.
In addition to paying for gear and instruction, you are paying for a “safety net”, ie, qualified instructors who are going to make sure you don’t get in over your head, and are there to bail you out and look out for your safety if you swim. Overall, I think the price is reasonable, if efficiency is your priority.
I have seen plenty of people become very competent Class III paddlers within a season if the have the opportunity and the dedication. I have also seen people progress to running quite difficult Class IV water without a reliable roll (they had a hell of a brace) but I wouldn’t recommend it. I think the idea of teaching the roll at the onset of instruction is very reasonable, but if you really want to paddle, I wouldn’t keep the lack of a roll from starting on easy whitewater, but you need to keep working on that roll if you do.
Go talk to the folk at Heart of Texas Kayaks in Belton or Austin Canoe and Kayak in Austin. You’ll get advice from those familiar with
Texas rivers and streams and it will be sound. Austin Canoe and Kayak, in particular, is geared for whitewater. Also, despite what some here may think of the one called canoeman, canoeman.com, he’s an excellent white water paddler, guide,and instructor. Probably as good as you are going to get here or elsewhere and he’s local.
No further posts needed from moi, but agree with nj - this isn't unexpected for the background stated. Very academic and distanced approach, and the expectations are very like one professional pilot I have known who started paddling from scratch.
The guy I know of did manage the near impossible in terms of skills in a single season, and is still remembered by some for it. But I am pretty sure they didn't have a full time job at that point - as I recall it was after they had taken a buy-out. IMO, with the schedule of someone who flies and plays, (competent) class 3 in a single season is a tall order unless they are a real water baby. But perhaps that's just me.
its not class III in a single season In and of itself, I don’t think that’s such a big deal, especially for a kayaker. On our local WW, it is common practice for playboaters to do class III their first season. Nah, it’s not the goal. It’s the presentation.
"common practice for playboaters to do class III their first season"
Most of them are probably 70+ years old too!
I think it's fairly common for people to do easy class III but not very well in a good season.
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"The guy I know of did manage the near impossible in terms of skills in a single season"
This fact still is misleading because, while it can happen and does happen, it would be a mistake to convey the expectation that it -will- happen. Put another way, one should be careful not to have people interprete exceptional events as typical.
One problem with forum discussions is that people bring up exceptional events in these discussions with no qualification. That is, they are presented in a way that causes readers to think that they are typical.
"I have seen plenty of people become very competent Class III paddlers within a season if the have the opportunity and the dedication."
How many of these were 70+ years old?
"I have also seen people progress to running quite difficult Class IV water without a reliable roll (they had a hell of a brace) but I wouldn't recommend it."
It's even a -bad- idea.
"I wouldn't keep the lack of a roll from starting on easy whitewater, but you need to keep working on that roll if you do."
I basically agree with this: one should be working on a roll. Swimming (exiting the boat) is often much more work for the people who are guiding the trip! So, having a roll sooner is a courtesy to the people you are paddling with!