the tendency of the kayak
to rock back and forth from one chine to another is because of the round hull and the hard chines. it is a characteristic of all Foster’s boats, and the legend is less so than the silhouette due to beam. It is simply one of many trade-offs made in hull design. Round hull = low wetted surface, which means a fast boat, but it will rock back and forth until it hits a chine, which also makes it turn well when edged. If you are looking for something more stable and slower, that responds with less performance and more reassurance when leaned for edged turns, the aquanaut and the explorer are both excellent designs, the P&H quest is also a lot of fun.
Round hull and hard chines?
How can a boat be round hulled AND hard chined?
A racing Surf Ski is round hulled. A Greenland SOF is hard chined. My Q700 is soft chined with a shallow V and somewhat splits the difference.
(Just looking to keep some consistent terminology here, not start a debate).
I only have limited test paddles in a Legend (1) and and NDK Explorer (2), but that was enough to delare the NDK a good friend, and the Legend rather unfriendly/squirrely on calm water (at my 205 lbs). In rough - both probably shine, but on flat, the NDK had me wanting more and the Legend had me wanting out.
round and hard chined
The bottom of the hull is round and the sides are chined. I also have a QCC-700 and I don’t find the Legend any less stable and I out wiegh you. I think its just a matter of getting used to the Legend. I never paddled an Explorer but would like to then again maybe not as I can’t afford to fall in love with another kayak!!
Have Both…
an Explorer and a QCC700, and the Legend was the boat I seriously debated prior to the Explorer purchase (along with a Currituck). If asked to characterize their handling, my take would be that the Explorer is the most confidence inspiring of the group. The amount of effort required to edge it builds very linearly with the amount of lean-it has a very solid secondary and gives lots of feedback leading up to its limits. A great trainer boat for learning strokes, etc.; it does the same thing every time with no surprises-VERY easy roller too. In comparison, both the Legend and the QCC are a little more dificult to roll-they both have higher rear decks, particularly the QCC, which I find annoying. It needs to be dropped two to three inches for easier laybacks. The Explorer’s a trifle dull on flat water and feels slower than it is, but what a hoot in the rough stuff, particularly so in the wind, where it’s supremely poised, and reassuringly weathercocks slightly. A little skeg balances it perfectly-a little more and it leecocks, superb for downwind surfing. I haven’t spent all that much time in the QCC at this point-my take…it tracks acceptably, yet I find it much more sensitive to wind and an occasional tangent-could be the plumb bow, the rounded bottom or my lack of serious water time in the boat. It too has a very solid secondary, but the limit is the way over, coaming in the water kind-it tends to ‘fall’ more rapidly into its secondary. Very maneuverable-surprisingly so for its length. The Legend is fun; it has personality. I found it to feel a bit nervous on flat water-it wants to rock onto a chine. If you have loose hips and like that feeling of readiness, this is your boat. It does require more attention to paddle in a straight line than the Explorer. It also insists on more commitment to edging. In higher winds the Legend weathercocks quite a bit more than the NDK, but less so than the QCC-again, a little skeg will true you up. The Explorer is a great choice if you want a known quantity in terms of handling, the Legend if you like a little spice, but you’ll need to stay on top of it more. I expect you’d acclimate quickly to that though. Solidly built boat-I wanted one badly when the lot of Walden produced ones came up on E Bay several months ago. Now if I get rid of one of the rec boats to free up a space, and a good used one comes up…
check out these photos
and you will understand:
http://wmcka.org/~wikle/images/nigel7.jpg
http://wmcka.org/images/wh_silh_4.jpg
the hull is round with no “V” or distinctive keel line. But the chines are there.
well
cmon it’s round relative to a v shaped hull common to almost all other sea kayaks.
Seriously, it looks
like a pretty flat shallow V to me. I don’t see anything very round on that hull except the day hatch and arch of the foredeck L. While you say it has no pronounced keel - it your pics it appears to have a good deal except right amidships.
The section between the chines is not enough deeper to call it much of anything. Flatness under cockpit is very clear on the side view on their website. Definitely more box than ball. Looks very Greenland SOF inspired - particulary viewed from under as you showed (a compliment more than aything).
But we digress. Go on back to the original question - which I am not qualified to discuss beyond my earlier comments.
I guess my photos
– Last Updated: Apr-12-04 7:56 AM EST –
weren't very good! Greyak, I'm not sure what your question is.
A kayak can be round hulled, and have rounded bilge sections like a surf ski, or a racing kayak, or it can have hard chines and a round hull like foster's kayaks.
terminology
I guess it would help if there is a name for the part of the hull beneath/beyond the chine. I do not know if such a term exists - I know of chine and keel but not the area between.
BTW - the Ellesmere also has hard chine and round hull.
The hull beneath/beyond the chine
…the bottom!
Bilge?
Would bilge be the term for the area beneath the chine, but not the keel?
no bilge refers to the mid section or
chines too. does it not?
NF Legend
Yes, rounded bilge or rounded keel section with a hard chine would be the way I would describe the Legend. Last Spring, I took a drive down to Maryland and tried out the Legend, Aquanaut and Explorer head-to-head at Atlantic Kayaks for the better part of a day. I greatly enjoyed paddling the Aquanaut and Explorer in my test, they were stable, edged well, tracked and turned great. But I just couldn’t get comfortable in the Legend. The kayak felt very unstable to me when it wasn’t leaned on a chine. It also had the most uncomfortable backband I’ve ever experienced. It was quite disappointing to me because I really wanted to like the Legend and perhaps purchase one. I ultimately ended up going with the Explorer and haven’t looked back.
I have always understood the bilge
to mean the most lateral area of the bottom surface of the hull. My Q500 had wide bilges, the bottom was almost flat all the way out to the side, then a rapid transition to the almost vertical sidewall (might be a better term there). (this trait was carried well to the front and rear of the boat.) My explorer has a proportionally narrower bilge and a much more gradual transition to a slightly flared sidewall. My shadow has a proportionally narrow bilge, with a hard chine transitions to a generously flared sidewall.
So check out the foster shadow
if you need a large or camping boat. That 23 inch beam really enables leaned turns to pop, especially for heavier paddlers. It is the only hard chined boat I can turn pretty well with an on-side lean. It is more manuverable than the other 18 foot foster boats. In calm conditions it is faster than my explorer, and the larger radius to the bottom curve makes it much less high strung. Of course ther are downsides to high volume and more freeboard.
Legend vs Silhouette
You would find more room in the Legend, but only in the depth, about 1" more. The other cockpit measurements are the same. Even the seats are are interchangeable (Seaward told me this). Plenty of leg room. When I switch from the Legend to the Silhouette my first impression is that my knees are forced lower and in, and that the rear coaming edge is lower. I can easily hand roll a Silhouette, the Legend is a tough hand roll.
The Silhouette tracks much better then the Legend. Straighter and faster. It’s a challenging boat to turn. You MUST edge the boat to turn. I would decide between one boat or the other by this difference. The Legend is a better all around boat with excellent turning ability on edge. The Silhouette is fast and straight. Both boats will take care of you in conditions. Both boats are less stable on flat water, but in conditions where it counts they are very stable. To beginner paddlers they may feel tippy.
Legend vs Silhouette beam
I agree with everything kwinkle said. But regarding the beam of the Legend and the Silhuette, the Legend is wider, but not at the waterline. I have put the boats side by side and measured from chine to chine. Both measurements are identical. If I remember right it was 18". Since the Legend is about 1" deeper the beam is wider as the hull rises up and flares out. The shallow arch hull does make for a tender balance point sitting still on calm water. But that is not what most kayaks are designed for.