Convert it
It shouldn’t be difficult to remove the stock coaming, build a recess in the existing hole, then install an ocean cockpit in it. This is a common design in wood boat construction.
Why “roll or die"
I don’t understand why people think that ocean cockpits are difficult to get out of. That’s simply not true. BTW, I have a 36” inseam, so I know a bit about long legs.
I agree with you regarding surf launches and landings. A keyhole cockpit can be an advantage when you need to move really fast.
Mea Culpa!
I said that I feel snugger in an ocean cockpit. I stand by that as being true for myself. If I had the talent and were building a surf kayak myself, I would make an ocean cockpit.
At Santa Cruz, I walked around and looked at different boats. I noticed that more than several of the top class surfers have effectively shorten their cockpit length by extending built up foam “masik-like” supports that come back from front cockpit.
sing
ougher
Harder to get back in during rescues, including the commonly taught paddle float re entry. Just my opinion. I had an ocean cockpit and would not own another one.
not always
I have an ocean cockpit and have no trouble using this technique for photography. I’m midsized but not large. I keep camera in my lap in rough water and strapped to the deck in calm water. A non-issue for me as I also have a boat with a keyhole cockpit.
The box can pass through?
Maybe there are large ocean cockpits, but the ones I’ve seen either in real life or photos look pretty small. Are you saying you can pass a fair-sized camera box like the Pelican 1300 through with you sitting in the cockpit?
My tiny point-and-shoot camera in a Rubbermaid sandwich box will fit anywhere, but a bulky SLR in a waterproof box is much bigger.
If OC Cockpits give you much more
of a connection with the kayak, then why don’t WW kayaks have them? I think with the advent of tighter and better fitting sprayskirts, OC cockpits are more of a historical reference in modern kayaks. I can see some advantage for smaller paddlers of sea boats.
aha
– Last Updated: May-07-04 4:46 PM EST –
Nope. Just a waterproof minolta 35mm point & shoot. But I think the Greenlander has a pretty large ocean cockpit, compared with say a Nordcapp, so I have a bit of room.
But I just picked up a cam-dry bag from Sagebrush dry goods, for my new digital SLR. Cannot fit that thru the cockpit, but I have to take the camera out of the bag regardless so I keep it in the day hatch unless on flatwater.
Wish I could find one of those nice waterproof clear cases for my Dimage 7hi.
it’s a thought
But I am planning on building a S&G plywood greenland style boat this fall. It will have an ocean style cockpit in it.
Keyhole is just easier to get into.
– Last Updated: May-07-04 6:24 PM EST –
My 1.8 cents:
I don't have a problem getting out of either.
I think you can get a good fit in either; overall cockpit size, shape, design and outfitting with regard to an individuals' body are more important than the opening.
I like being able to get in butt first sometimes.
Keyhole cockpits
are cooler, that’s an issue here in South Florida
Mario
I prefer to call it an
inland sea style cockpit.
Extending foam into cockpit area
I don’t know about any of the other builders of Surf specific kayaks, but Dick Wold outfits his kayaks like you describe, Sing. I have one of his older models (Das Boot). I didn’t like the stock outfitting. The only way into the kayak is to sit aft the cockpit and slide your legs into the boat. The problem with this is that it precludes any back support (it would be in the way of getting in. This may not sound right, but believe me, I’ve been in a lot of different kayaks, and this is the only one where I had this problem), and without back support, I found myself falling partially out of the kayak when I would flip. What I did was cut the foam even with the front of the cockpit and glass in some thigh hooks, and add a foam back support. It works great! I’m very happy with the current setup. See Photo’s: http://community.webshots.com/album/141196702jMxUXd
Excuse me for getting a bit off the original subject.
Bob
At Santa Cruz, I walked around and looked at different boats. I noticed that more than several of the top class surfers have effectively shorten their cockpit length by extending built up foam “masik-like” supports that come back from front cockpit.
sing
WW water boats don’t have them
because of entrapment issues. That’s where the “ocean style” name comes from.
On Topic… I Think.
– Last Updated: May-08-04 11:57 AM EST –
The method you described for getting into your surfyak is how I get into my Greenland S&G as well as SOF. Once I am in, I do feel "locked in."
What I also noticed about some of the fit out in the surf yaks of the competitors is that they have built up the height of the seats. This accounts for the extreme "lean out" that they seem to be able to do on some of the wave faces. The height of the seat, in addition to making the boat tippier, also means that they are partially out of the cockpit already. This accounts for why some have additonal thigh straps mounted in the cockpit. Talk about "roll or die..."
One outfitting feature I think I may try is the block of foam, 4-5" wide, that come straight out from the middle of aft cockpit rim. This takes the place of a backband. Seems it would provide some support but since it doesn't go completely across the back, there is a lot of leeway in rotating the torso that would be needed on those extreme lean outs.
sing
PS. I am seeing it right? You glassed right over the foam for the thigh braces?
Better Even More Specific…
and call it a narrow, 4 panel constructed “qajariaq” with an “inland sea cockpit.” This way you avoid any problems with the “mullahs.” 
sing
Keyhole cockpit for me
I used to own a Nordkapp HM with an ocean cockpit. The contact was great and I really liked the smaller sprayskirt. However, my issue was when I wanted to make a surf landing on rocks. The extra time required to get out of the boat (even though we’re only talking about a few seconds), coupled with tying up both arms to do so, really opened me up to getting thrashed on the rocks by breaking waves.
I now paddle NDK kayaks with a keyhole cockpit. I still get excellent thigh contact, granted not quite as good as with the ocean cockpit but good enough. The real difference is in the surf landing. When coming in, I’ll pop the skirt, lift both feet out of the cockpit and when I land, I’ll be out of the boat in two seconds and pulling the boat up the rocks before the next wave hits. That’s why I like’em.
Extending foam into cockpit area
what I meant by getting “off the original subject” is that I was talking specifically about Dick Wold kayaks—not ocean vs keyhole cockpits. BTW, I’ll weigh in on that with a thumbs up for keyhole cockpits.
PS. I am seeing it right? You glassed right over the foam for >the thigh braces?
No, I laid 6 or 8 layers of glass extending 3" onto the underside of the deck and extending about 2" out into the cockpit area. Then added a fillet to increase the strength.
After sanding it, I applied closed cell foam. Not pretty, but they work very well.
PS, I was out of town and could not respond earlier.
Bob
That’s why you learn to brace and roll
Unintentional swimming should be a rare occurrence. I’ll gladly trade the minor inconveniences of an ocean cockpit for the increased control it gives me 99.9% of the time. But that’s just my personal preference.
Any specific design in mind?