OH DNR officer said I MUST use ramp?

The right question and the right place
to ask it.



He is not confronting an officer during a launch or recovery. He is asking the question in a safe environment before the next in person, on site meeting.



Let us know what answer you get.


:^)



Mick

Law enforcement officers
sometimes have a very weak understanding of the laws they are enforcing, and so they make things up as they go along. In this case, the officer was probably wanting to stay on the “safe side”.



I generally deal with these things after the fact - the first time an officer tells me some “law” I find suspect, I comply with his directions, and then go home and research it. If I can’t find anything that directly relates, I call the state office and get clarification, along with a name and date for the official who gave me the information supporting me. If I can find specific statutes that allow what I am doing, I photocopy the pertitnent paragraph, laminate it, and stick it in the back of my log book, to show the officer.

some people just don’t get it
I went to check out a local township park that isn’t too far from my home this spring. They usually only charge during the summer and there was nobody at the gate. As I pulled in someone waved me down and told me that I couldn’t launch the two canoes on my car and that I would have to go to the boat launch on the other side of the lake. We drove the 4 miles around the lake and got to the boat launch to find out that to launch a boat there was an additional charge on top of the entrance fee.



Never going back there.

I don’t see attitude anywhere

– Last Updated: Aug-20-07 2:52 PM EST –

He asked for clarification, perfectly polite, perfectly appropriate. How could you possibly conceive that there was anything wrong with phreon's letter?

Who waved you down?

– Last Updated: Aug-20-07 3:00 PM EST –

If they don't have a badge and a gun, ask "and who exactly are you, and please produce documentation or point me to a sign that tells me I can't launch here?" If they don't have any good answers to that, just go ahead and do it.

A lot of custodians, etc, like to appoint themselves police, it gives them a thrill. I tend to just humor them, smile and nod and do whatever I am doing anyway. Example: I was at the airport waiting to get a flight, and since the gate next to mine was not in use and no one was sitting in the waiting area there, I sat there, literally two paces from the desk. I realized my new carry-on did not have an id tag, so I stood up, took one step, two steps, reached over and picked up one of the freebie paper tags - then one step, two steps, sat back down with my bag. A janitor came up to me and told me that I cannot leave my baggage unattended like that. I said "how fascinating" and turned to reading my Economist.

GOOD NEWS
First, sorry if I’m socially challenged. I was trying to be direct with my question posed to the DNR, not adversarial in any way.



In any case, I reached a person with the ODNR at East Fork Lake. I asked the open ended question of where I can put my kayak in the lake and her words were, “Anywhere except in the swimming areas, most people use the areas to the left and right of the beach.” I then explained my friend and my exerience Sunday and she was puzzled. She put me on hold while she double checked with the park director’s office and came back telling me that the sides of the beach are fine. She then asked for the officer’s name, but I didn’t know it, so I just gave a general description. She said she’d talk to all the officers to let them know we’re allowed to use that area.



Certainly my purpose in pursuing this was not a vendetta against an officer, but rather to make sure we’re doing the right thing and that as paddlers, our rights are preserved. I think the outcome is more than satisfactory.



Phreon

Your letter was fine.

I think it’s best to keep names out.
Last summer, I liked to bank fish at a little park set back off the streets in the woods a little before dark. It’s a gated park, with a posting stating that it’s open 1/2 hour before dawn to a 1/2 hour after sunset.



One evening, a park officer (not dnr, think more, rental security guy) pulled up, saw my car, looked around before he found me a second later, and told me it was closing time. I looked back to the West and, while looking at the sun a few degrees above the horizon, calmly stated, “I’m sorry sir, but I’ve got about over a half hour left.”



He started getting huffy with me saying, “Sir, I’m not even required to look for you before closing the gate. I was being nice.” Now, it’s time to leave, or I’ll either tow your car or lock the gate with you in here."



I politely told him he was wrong, that sunset on that particular day was at 9:28, and it’s only 9:15, giving me another 40 some minutes, but I would leave to avoid an argument. He let it go, since I was leaving. A couple of nights later, another officer came in about 1/2 hour early again, and told me it was time to go, and told him I wanted to show him something. I had printed off the official sunset times for my zip code and explained it to him, and he politely agreed I was right. I let him know I would leave anyway, and thanked him for being so polite, but said another officer had been very rude. I HAD got the officer’s name, but I refused to give it when asked. I said I didn’t want to get anyone in trouble, but after describing what was said, he stated he knew who it was and would let their boss know.



I never saw the rude guy again, and I never got chased out early by anyone after that. I think he pursued the matter out of respect that I didn’t name the guy. He knew my intent was not malicious, and I think that goes a long way with some of those guys.

Basically, in Ohio…
…a boat is a boat.



The officer was correct in one respect: you are

supposed to obey the identical laws.



It’s a crock.



I’ve run into very similar trouble, most of the

individuals will look the other way and manage

the spirit of the law. They’d rather look the

other way because they have other things more

important.



But do not fool yourself: the state of Ohio does

not want hand paddlers.

contact
I’d e-mail the powers with the question. I have had good luck getting through to higher ups if I use e-mail in state agencies (state DNR and Conservation Depts). A subordinate will find out the right answer from the right person.

Actually
A boat is a boat, but as far as I can tell, in Ohio, there’s no requirement (enumerated in any statute) that ANY boat must use the ramp. It’s the trailer/automobile that’s an issue. If you could carry your Sea Ray to the water’s edge, I think it’d be ok as well.



I was told by the ODNR person I spoke to today that I can put in anywhere as long as I don’t use the area marked off for swimming. This is consistent with every other Ohio body of water I’ve frequented.



I think the officer in question was having a bad day or somehow ill informed. Either way, my tactic will be to continue using the beachside area as I always have. If I’m questioned again, I’ll politely inform the officer that I called the ODNR and was told I could put in anywhere but inside the swimming buoys and that the area I’m using was specifically suggested. If the officer presses, I’ll politely ask that he cite me for whatever statute I’ve in violation of and then will be on my way.



Phreon

I think you handled
the situation just fine. We as citizens have the right to question or ask for clarification if we don’t understand something or don’t think it is right. However, challenging a law enforement officer on the spot is never a good idea. Looks to me like you handled it in a mature and responsible manner and it worked out fine.

don’t open that can, yak
cops are unfailingly and invariably nice and fair…

thanks phreon
Your message to the ODNR was polite and appropriate and thanks for sharing a subsequent response with us all.

Absolutely.
And honest, hardworking, under-paid, under-appreciated, . . . .



Oh wait, I’m YakOfSteel now. Hell no, they’re all crooked!



lol, just kidding, rroberts . . . .

THE OFFICIAL WORD FROM ODNR
I received the following from the Watercraft Region Manager for our area. I thought I’d add it to this thread for posterity.



Thanks for taking time to bring this issue to our attention. I apologize if you were inconvenienced.



I have spoken with the officer involved and reviewed our policy on launching in and around the beach area with him. It is our policy to allow for shore side launching of hand powered craft, so long as you are not in the designated beach area. From your description it sounds as if you were well outside of the swim zone.



Once again thank you for bringing this to our attention, and feel free to continue to use the area as in the past.

Ok
so what if you have a paddle boat thats feet powerd?

glad you got the official word on this
Sometimes I think people possess poor spirit and want to give others a hard time just because they feel like it.



The DNR dude who hassled you may have personal problems. Perhaps he admired your guts for getting in a kayak in the first place but he was jealous of your game and well so it goes.

Congratulations!
It’s reassuring to see a well written and polite letter followed by a sensible reply. If only that could happen every time we encountered a problem…



Good job!

It may surprise you - - but - -

– Last Updated: Aug-22-07 9:20 PM EST –

There seems to be something going on within the ODNR about all small craft. Local Resevoir has a boat ramp fee even for anything regardless of ramp usage. It's ODNR water, but the local village owns the ramps (according to Village, and it appears to be so)

I've also heard this same comment from a couple local inflatable paddlers too. They were told they had to use boat ramps. Nothing was said about beaches being involved.

Now the rumor is - - ODNR wants to concentrate all boats in and out of the waters where they can easily check registrations. Another rumor was that a ODNR Fella popped a couple guys at a gas station with bait, and canoes with no stickers. The owners claimed they were heading for a private pond, but were cited anyways. (I might have taken that to the courthouse)

Note - - Only rumor with no supporting documentation.

edit: I see the formal ODNR Response, I'll have to see what the local ODNR guys are doing, and make sure I get info on the guy before contacting the state level.