Just to be clear, I used a suit with a lowered pzip for years. It occasionally took some arguing with Kokatat to get it but it was a better solution for me than most. I still have a suit with it that is in good shape, but I have finally given up on the fight to retain my 30 year old dimensions and we no longer fit.
I still prefer the two piece suit I have now.
Unfortunately I can’t find a place to try one on. That would of course be fabulous but kayak shops are getting farther and fewer between, what they carry is getting narrower and sizes are limited.
I do know there’s no way I’ll fit anything Kokatat makes for women, so it’ll be a men’s XL or maybe even XXL since guys don’t tend to have hips. I wish manufacturers would get on board that some women are 5’11" with long arms and legs! This is the main reason I wound up with a Reed. Completely custom except for the relief zipper - I couldn’t get them to lower it. But I make it work.
My expedition 'yak doesn’t have a seat back or even a back band but Kokatat uses that as an indicator where the zipper sits. My concern with the knob wasn’t dangling but rather a hard round piece of plastic pressing against my waist. I wear a tow belt. I was hoping it was more below the waist.
I have never had the knob interfere with the tow belt. And I have done my share of towing.
Where are you located? Maybe someone has an option in your area
You’ve hit upon the very heart of the issue.
I’m paddling Lake Superior in 2021 to celebrate my 65th year on this planet. I was planning on taking both a wetsuit and a dry suit to use as needed. Figured if I was 100’ from shore in calm conditions I could wear the farmer john with a paddle jacket. Big crossings like Thunder Bay or rough conditions, I’d zip into my dry suit.
I was just up at the GLSKS taking an expedition class and the coach (Michael Gray) suggested the bibs/dry top combo for the reasons you outlined. If I swim in that combo will I take on water or do the bibs and dry top mate enough to stay dry?
Good idea about the Reed cag - which I have already. Only worn it once in Nova Scotia because it’s really warm and I tend to run hot.
Any favorites for the vent-able dry tops?
I ditto Allan about no interference with a tow belt.
The pants aren’t skin tight like a leotard. As I wear layer under the suit, I don’t feel the knob inside. The waist fit is adjustable.
You do have the option of having a custom suit made to your measurements. https://kokatat.com/custom
As to Lake Superior, are you circumnavigating or doing particular sections? What time of the year?
Our messages crossed in the ethers apparently.
I’m in Almost Heaven West Virginia so I’ll be surprised if there’s many options. The closest shop that has any Kokatat inventory is Blue Mountain Outfitters in PA on the Susquehanna. I haven’t called yet to see what they have in stock, but I don’t recall seeing any SwitchZips on the rack last year but you never know.
The one of ladies I paddle with has a SwitchZip and loves it but she’s 5’ 7".
I would do a two piece combo for the wet-suit it’s not only easier for peeing it is much more adaptable.{switch out tops etc} I have a spare pair of the old bibs without the boots and no relief zipper {actually I have a large and an ex large} if you would like to experiment with the idea of bibs. If you are just looking at the two piece drysuit then someplace like Canoeacopia is where to find one to try on {since you must be sort of Midwest and maybe Michigan…and it should be happening in the spring next year. Same with if you need to try on a full drysuit. I carry my Reed cag and whirlpool bibs in a hatch whenever I paddle Lake Superior in the summer. The weather is very persnickety . If it looks doubtful, I pull into a landing and change. {unless it is already drysuit wearing time and then I already have it on and carry a pair of Reed chillcheater pants and a few choices for tops to change into } in case I overestimated the weather.
Working on the logistics now, but planning on leaving late May or first of June depending upon weather patterns and doing a solo circumnavigation in one summer-long adventure.
Almost forgot…there’s nothing on the website about customizing a SwitchZip.
look at the website and see the size that the suit fits. {hip and waist etc} Then call them and ask your questions. If the inseam is a little short , you can up the bootie size and it will translate into a longer inseam. The fabric doesn’t know it is part of the sock and it works. {BTW there is no such thing as a vent-able dry top, only semi dry are vent-able}
The Radius is listed: “RADIUS DRY SUIT (GORE-TEX) CUSTOM - WOMEN’S”
Unfortunately I need to get whatever I decide upon to use fairly soon. I want to get comfortable using it, make sure it isn’t going to chafe, break it in, whatever. I have plans to go up the Maine in September and that would be a great time to test out gear.
I may try calling. I had an email exchange about getting a ‘custom’ suit last fall that was tepid to say the least. The rep I was emailing seemed uninterested in problem solving. That experience and latex gaskets are the reasons I’m so tempted to wear a wetsuit/dry top most of the time and just sweat like a demon in my Reed when the conditions warrant more protection. I’ve also looked at the Reed trousers with added socks as a possible solution.
Thanks for the low down on vent-ables. I can’t tell you how many folks have suggested that to me. I’ve looked high and low and only found semi-dry tops. They probably confuse drysuits with paddle suits as well!
I always wear a tow belt, unless I forgot it. The knob is never in my way.
Hi Bee,
I had a Kokatat Radius and now a Kokatat Idol. Both are two-piece switch-zip models. I’m a large man, 56 yrs old. The main diff between those models is the hood, which I personally found little use for. The Radius has two sleeve pockets, OK, and thigh pocket. That’s nice to stuff something temporarily on shore while dressing, but I often got sealed into my cockpit to discover oops, I forgot my watch in the thigh pocket and now can’t get it. A few other minor differences.
I love the switch zip for the ability to drop the pants when an emergency “nature-squat” is in order. And yes, the zipper can be a little tricky. Opening is OK and pretty quick, but starting the zipper connection requires a little fuss and dexterity. Someone with poor manual dexterity or perhaps arthritis might have some trouble. I do occasionally notice/feel the zipper cover but it’s not annoying for me. I have had the zipper lodge between my back and band after a wet reentry, but it really does usually fall nicely below the back band.
Also, it’s really sweet to drive to the launch site with just the pants on, or remove the top for a long lunch break.
My biggest complaint is there is simply too much bulk around the mid-section. You’ll need to wear separate top & bottom base layers for full “drop-pants” benefit as opposed to a comfy bunny suit. That means: base layer waist band, dry suit zipper, spray skirt, over-tunnel/cummerbund, tow-belt, PFD. That’s 6 layers around the torso. The suit also has a neoprene waist band, and TWO flaps that VELCRO together over the zipper in “top only” mode. That’s eight (8) layers/items (or more) on the torso! And the zipper cover flaps velcro are awkward and catch/stick to everything else while dressing. I cut away my zipper inner flap and velcro, leaving one outer flap (even that’s not necessary). I never use the top-only because I have other tops. I also cut away the bulky, lower neoprene section of the over tunnel (cummerbund). So I now have just a shorter Goretex fabric over skirt flap. It works OK for me, even when rolling or surfing. Minor leakage into the boat is well worth the comfort.
Oh, and that neoprene inner waist band I mentioned? It’s what hold up the “pants only”. After rinsing the suit it takes days to dry, as all neoprene seems to. If it gets wet on a multi-day expedition you’ll have wet fabric around your waist all day. Ugh! It’s the interior of suit so shouldn’t happen, but…
I’ve never used a bib. But I’m pretty sure if you swim with a bib and it floods, you’re in a world-O-hurt! Try climbing back into a kayak with 60 lbs of water inside? I doubt it.
Conclusion: Love to remove top for driving. Dropping pants for nature break is priceless when needed, makes this my first choice.
But so over-engineered I hacked away parts for better comfort. Never as comfy as one-piece with bunny suit.
I ordered mine from REI. You can try it on, and if it doesn’t fit return at a local store. With free shipping it’s totally no risk. Also they often have great deals. Look at this:
https://www.rei.com/product/131528/kokatat-gore-tex-radius-dry-suit-mens
Good luck.
'Afternoon Troy,
So many specifics…just what I was looking for!
Too much around the waist does bug me and the suit had looked bulky to me. It’s hard enough to fold my knees up and get my feet clear of the cockpit (my Necky has a short cockpit) so I can get out. But I’ve always preferred two piece base layers so I’m used to that. Thanks for reinforcing my fear of flooded bibs should I swim!
The dry time is a great point as I don’t think the goretex is going to breath enough to keep me from being sweat soaked on warmer days.
It’s looking like the main reason for the suit would be the, as you said, emergency ‘nature-squat’, and maybe using the top with either my neoskin pants or farmerjohn on warm days. But then I already have a good paddle jacket that keeps me dry. Sigh. So hard to decide.
And finally, thanks for reminding me that now is the time to be buying a drysuit! That’s a pretty good deal you referenced.
Cheers,
B
I order my drysuit from REI as well years ago . Unfortunately for most people the 50% off deal is only for the XXL. They must have a major overstock. However, if you are an REI member they have a 20% sale at least once a year. I lucked out because when I ordered mine I needed a medium and all of the local stores were out of stock. When I called the main number they found two. One in Massachusetts and one in Alaska. I opted for the one in Massachusetts. Shipping was free, and back then there was no sales tax if you bought from out of state. So I saved that in addition to the 20%.
A couple of years ago when I was helping with a cold water workshop I discovered a small leak in one knee. I sent in the suit to Kokatat and got a call a few days later that they had discovered some delamination in the Gore-Tex. All they wanted to know is what color I wanted for the new drysuit. Can’t beat Kokatat’s service and lifetime warranty.
Yeah, I have two boats w/a med. cockpit (seals skirt size 1.4), OK in summer. My larger cockpit Dagger Stratos L, (seals 1.7) is more comfy, easier to enter, my go-to in winter with dry suit & layers. I feel ya. And w/size 13 shoes!
After cutting away the superfluous layers and flaps the suit is certainly acceptable. Never as comfortable as a one-piece, but still way better than a wet suit. Let’s face it, paddling cold conditions won’t ever be comfortable .
I never wear a farmer john or any 3 mm suit anymore. If it’s too cold for a hydro-skin then I go dry suit. A bulky dry suit is still better than thick neoprene. You’ll be surprised how dry you’ll be even on warm weather days. Adjusting the base layers is the trick and using wicking fabrics. If it gets too hot just roll, or dip arms in water. I’ve had only Kokatat Goretex suits. They really are very dry. And their warranty/cust service is unmatched. Just be careful that their older fabric suits don’t have the lifetime warranty, but those are prob. not available any more.
I use the switch-zip model because I’m older and have digestive track disorder. I sometimes have to drop the pants with a degree of urgency. If not for that I would opt for the one-piece suit w/men’s front relief zipper. It’s just more comfy. But I have often recommended the two piece for ladies. I guess it’s personal preference. Many woman use men’s suits just fine.
It sounds like this will be your first dry suit. Once you have one you’ll spit on your farmer John/Jane. But consider how much you’ll use it. If it’s just a few days/year it’s hard to justify the expense. If you paddle year-round and get out several days/month then maybe worthwhile. If you’re giving it any serious consideration than order that one from REI. Try it on, kick the tires, even try paddling with it. REI will take it back, no questions. Half off? That deal will be gone tomorrow. Order it now! Do it! You won’t get stuck.
Oh, and don’t get alarmed if the neck seal seems frighteningly tight. They are meant to be trimmed if needed. But that’s a whole other thread. “Paddling suits” or “semi-dry suits” are suits with neoprene neck seals instead of latex. They feel more comfortable but will allow a small amount of leakage. Considered perfectly safe for cold water, but folks that surf or roll a lot want the complete seal of latex neck. Both styles still have latex wrists. You probably knew that. Kokatat had a switch-zip paddling suit, but may have discontinued.
Good luck.
Hey Troy -
Thanks again for the info. Technically it is my first DRYsuit, but I’ve paddled in a Reed Chillcheater paddlesuit for about 3 years now and actually love it, especially the price - $400 fully custom. Love the adjustable neck seal (which has never let in more than a couple tablespoons of cold water), the suit stretches just a tad and LOVE the back waist zip. It is hot on days above 75F but I don’t think Goretex is all that breathable for me anyway. I’ve got Goretex rain gear that doesn’t keep me from building up condensation.
A Switchzip is already shipping from REI. Figured, like you said, I could don all my usual gear, then go sit in my Necky and see what I think. I’m hoping my 35" legs will fit the 32" inseam stated on the size chart. Gotta love REI for their return policy though, so I’m covered. My objection to paying $1500 for a drysuit has certainly been addressed!
Neck seals - another reason I went with a paddle suit originally. Hate being choked, but I’m more worried about the neck and wrist seals being too large given its a men’s suit and I had to size up to accommodate female anatomy. Kokatat can swap the seals out for a small fee and I’ll still be paying less than full price for the suit.
The big reason for the two piece was the ‘gotta go now!’ digestion related thing. It also gives me the option of a dry top. Good point about a farmerjohn vs. hydroskin. Hydroskins would certainly pack down smaller for the expedition and should suffice. It’s hard to know. So many people who paddle Lake Superior are warning me about cold water gear, yet at the Symposium a few weeks ago most of the coaches were out there in board shorts or hydroskin knickers with dry tops paddling Pictured Rocks!
Thanks again - to everyone! - for all the really good information. Y’all are great!
Cheers,
Bee