Opinions on paddle leashes....

I understand your concern
Of course a paddle leash creates the rare possibility of entanglement. Heck, I could get highjacked by terrorists too! Or even struck by lightening. But I don’t wear my bomb proof vest every where or my lightening arrestor suit. I am just an accident waiting to happen.



But they make knives which can cut through paddle cord material. I would assume you have one on your vest. I would suspect one might have the same concerns over various deck rigging, fishing poles, drybag straps and meriad of other devices hanging off or into your boat. I actually have straps that adjust the seat in my boat. I guess I should cut them all out in the name of safety. Leave the line off the poles until actually fishing or remove all that nasty line around the perimeter of my boat.



But in the real world, I think the knowledge that you HAVE a paddle leash and it MIGHT SOMEDAY RARELY pose a threat to your survival should be enough. We are dealing with various threats by kayaking. Now if I were contiuously flipping and every time I came to surface I also managed to wrap my paddle leash around my neck, then maybe I would think, this paddle leash thingy is just not for me. I have not been able to find the data showing the numbers of “deaths by paddle leash” yet, but I will keep trying. I am suspecting that if this was such a dire threat to my well being that paddle leashes would come with warnings from the Surgeon General attached.

Having or not experience

– Last Updated: Aug-07-07 1:05 PM EST –

There are a number of situations in which I would stay mute about paddle leashes, for example puddling around on flat calm water in a pond where the likelihood of both capsize and entanglement can be argued to be less. I also have a wrist leash wrapped around my Euro paddle and have been known to use it in conditions where others may not.

BUT - your post recommending the constant use of leashes includes an environment in which your profile suggests you have no experience, and in which a paddle leash or any similar device IS very dangerous. That is in other than "very high risk rapids". If you understand the class rating system for rapids and had experience having capsized in class 1 and 2 stuff, you would have written rapids of any level off the list of places to use a paddle leash. Even the easy rapids produce considerable capsizes and have significant risks.

And forget the knife bit in moving water - the water at least will limit the movement of your arms, if you are still holding onto the paddle it can make it impossible to move around on one side. Ths happens even in a tidal race in seemingly big open ocean water. Of course that only gets noticed if your body isn't in the wrong place against a rock or strainer to start with. Getting to the knife is problematical, let alone having the ability to cut the line before you would be out of air.

Lookit - I am not hard core on this myself. But experience in the environments that you mention in your profile is not informative for the risks in ANY level rapids, tidal races, big haystacks etc. The risks associated with a paddle leash are not at all rare in those environments, in fact they are common. I had no choice but to say you are not right on that one.

stupid ideas certain instructors…

– Last Updated: Aug-07-07 12:47 PM EST –

"Putting anything between your legs other than your boat is a bad idea. So are paddle leashes. Either rig your deck so you can stow your paddle quickly and easily, or learn to hold on to it."

I would like to strongly disagree with a lot of this statement.

Instructors comming up with stupid ideas..yes it happens but this is not one of them.

Paddle leashes are in general a bad idea in rough conditions and an excuse for not paying attention to your equipment. I agree. However so is stowing the paddle in deck rigging. Wind or wave action will quickly turn the kayak/paddle combo into a propeller or twist around and become difficult to release/reach. Seen it happen numerous times in rough water classes. Be very careful when stowing the paddle under the deckline whether you are in the kayak or in the water.

I have found putting the paddle between my legs a very easy and safe option whenever I need both hands while in the water, little chance of injury and easy quick release or get back to my hands. This has includes a lot of time practicing rescues in current and breaking waves. There may be times I would not do this but on those occasions I would not want the paddle attached to the kayak either, I would want it in my hand or want the paddle and kayak as far away from me as possible.

Bottom line is, don't get bullied out of trying valid technique by strong words. Make an think about it, ask people with experience, try it your self, consider the pros and cons, look for safety compromises and make up your own mind.

And while I'm on my soap box. Regarding the SKS video being full of holes I'll not disagree but most if not all the holes mentioned may well have been deliberate ommisions.

You’re not disagreeing with me.
If it works for you it works, if it doesn’t it doesn’t. No assessment here - do whatever you want, however you want.



We had a rescue day in CT with a pretty big turnout and lots of paddlers loved that method. One woman (good experienced paddler) always had trouble throwing herself up on the back of a boat and did that method easily.



The problem with a lot of those jumping on the back deck rescues, they never show it done with spare paddles on the back deck. You want to try out a few black and blues, try that one with a bathing suit on.

Back deck paddles
Why would you put your spare paddles on the back deck?

Why not?

– Last Updated: Aug-08-07 11:38 AM EST –

P & H serius used to have indentations on the back deck for the spare. Valley Canoes bungee arrangement was for the spares on the back deck. I see a lot of back deck spares and I do that. I don't want to look at them all day and water sheds nice off a smooth deck.

I see a lot on the front deck too. It destroy's the nice lines of the boat that way.

BTW: Valley Canoe and others straight across single bungee arrangement on the front deck vs. X pattern is so you can read charts there.

On back deck and rescue
I finally settled on having one split front and one back after being the rescuee in an assisted rescue in tidal races. The rescuer’s situation was definately complicated by my having both splits on the front deck when he had to handle the boat, and he was a big strong guy. I realized that a smaller person like myself might really hate having to work around that many protrusions, even if small, while trying to empty the boat.



However, I don’t want to be without something I can rip off the front deck if need be. My compromise was to put one back and one front, and after years of literally going back and forth on that I really like it. (GP as a spare always goes on the front sine it is one piece.)



As to the foot in the cockpit thing - last I heard it was being called the rolly-polly by many - it is a great technique for women. It takes no upper body strength and in a heartbeat you are just plopped right where you want to be into the cockpit. I have seen it be less successful for guys, though I am not sure why. I suspect something to do with weight distribution.

recommend?
I am not sure I recommended using a paddle leash in all conditions. And NO my profile is not up to date.



I recommend you understand the minute hazard and make an informed decision based on your personal fear level that the improbable will happen. We all have our own level of risk assessment. Hey, I actually skip wearing my seatbelt! And here in PA, I ride motorcycles without helmets!! WOW! And other states that allow it too. In NY and PA I am only required to carry a PFD in my immediate reach. Guess what? I rarely wear it, same as the majority of river paddlers I pass here. I am not recommending you follow that pattern. But I am recommending not to let your fear run wild so that you cause yourself unneeded frustration because you were abnormally scared of living comfortably. Really, a paddle leash, of all the things that could happen to you, this is one of the least probable.



I have been fish hooked, paddle slapped, rock crashed, strained, fallen into river and broke my arm bone completely off, eye seriously poked by passing branches, hand blistered from paddling, blown over, crashed into, but somehow did not yet manage to hang myself with my paddle leash. Man, I am one lucky guy. How’s that for a profile?


Difference between WW and the ocean
An important difference with WW and the ocean is that the usual thing to do after a wet exit in WW is to swim ashore (no need for paddle), whereas in the ocean you will need your paddle to get to shore after you have reentered. In the ocean you of course carry a spare paddle, but if you have lost your first, you’ll likely lose you spare as well.



The above risk analysis will have to be weighed against the risk of entanglement:

-For WW the risk of entanglement(could be fatal) easily outweighs a lost paddle(costly).

-For the ocean the risk of entanglement(could be fatal) would have to be weighed against the risk of a lost paddle(could also be fatal). In my mind there is no general answer for the ocean. Myself I don’t use a leash, but have considered it when paddling solo on the ocean.

Never in WW
When I paddled a class II+ (beginner ww) river a couple of weeks ago another paddler got caught in a wave for several minutes. Luckily he was able to catch a breath every now and again as he occasionally surfaced. Had he used a paddle leash he could very easily been entangled, which might have prevented him from surfacing or swimming.

Problem w/hyperbole

– Last Updated: Aug-09-07 12:16 PM EST –

This seems to have brought out the usual tendency towards hyperbole around paddle leashes.

Avoiding something like a paddle leash in any level of WW or moving water is standard practice, not "fear run wild". Labeling people who recommend standard practice as being overcome with irrational fear is hyperbole.

Not wearing a PFD is akin to skipping the helmet - if you are out of the boat you are going hit things with your body and that cushioning matters. At least for this torso. Given the scratches in my helmet that would have otherwise been my head, just from one capsize in easy class 2, I don't want to think about how my back would have liked finding the rocks that the PFD handled for me.

Edited bit - it does appear that you have taken some significant injury, and that can't be fun. But your own choices to use or not use gear shouldn't translate into a recommendation that others should do the same, or a reason to say using more conservative habits indicate irrational fear.

i use a paddle leash…
while teaching. i can drop the paddle and perform a rescue without thinking about it. the leash is one of those bungie jobbers with the blue and orange balls on the end…i have one end running through short tow harness on my pfd and the other wrapped around the paddle and can be very quickly (but not accidentally) detached.



in scenario’s where i am the swimmer for the rescue, i detach the leash (stuff the loose end into the pfd) and hand my paddle to the rescuer as the whole being attached to the paddle thing at this point is a pain in the ass.

That’s the one I use
Easy on, easy off. Great used in the right situation.

Risk is not only to you
If someone shows up at the river without float bags I won’t paddle with them. It is dumb not to have them and makes rescue and assistance very difficult. Similarly if someone is not wearing a pfd or helmet they are on their own. I don’t want to assume more risk to myself because of their bad decisions that are easily corrected. I keep my older helmet around just because of all the bangs and scratches on it. Reminds me of how dangerous being upside down in a rapid can be. Think about floating unconscious down the river taking in water because you banged your head and had no pfd.

I don’t like leashes
Unless you are fishing and therefore might have to drop the paddle in a hurry I really do not see a real need for a leash but the main reason I do not like them is that I like to extend my paddle a lot, not only for my pathetic rolls but for general paddling and a leash would just be in my way.

well I guess I meant

– Last Updated: Aug-08-07 1:00 PM EST –

It is obviously a personal decision. You are NEVER going to find a professional instructor, who must maintain a reasonable insurance rate and isolate themselves from the legal liability incurred from recommending a use of a paddle leash. That would be like recommending you not wear a helmet when cycling. And of course there are no limits to those who want to protect us from our own unwitting or uniformed choices so they can protect you, your family, the paddling community at large, the greater good of mankind etc.

But I think the question was, do we find it a pleasurable asset to our days experience? My answer so far is YES. But we should definitely have some rules to live by.

And here are my rules for living forever based on just my personal experience of leading a precarious life:

Example: I fell out of a motor boat once and ran my hand through the propeller!! Almost lost all the fingers.
Rule 1 : NEVER get in a boat propelled by a motor or propeller of any kind.
I fell off the bank and landed in the river and broke my arm off.
Rule 2: NEVER attempt to reach the river edge without a handicap ramp or certified professional to assist with proper rappeling gear and training in an environmentally friendly and padded training area. Also, wear a helmet within 25 feet of river bank.
I hooked a friend in an adjacent craft with my Muskie lure.
Rule 4: NEVER paddle within 50 yards of anyone carrying fishing gear. And NEVER paddle with anyone who would dare bring such destructive devices.
I was manuevering my craft through some river obstacles when an adjacent craft pummeled me into the rocks.
Rule 5: NEVER paddle in a river with other craft. I never paddle with anyone with a boat after that.

I could go on. But as a friendly paddler noted above, they would not want to live my heroing experiences. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. And this only concerns my paddling adventures. Now if I were to list my rules for mountain bike riding, motorcycle (on and off road) riding, hunting, fishing, rock climbing, hiking, geocaching, camping and wife swapping, man that could fill volumns.

But really, paddle leash, good idea? Well, I guess the best answer would be the marketing departments of the various outfitters. Who the heck is buying these contraptions? Haven't they ever consulted safety manuals? Don't they have friend on P-NET? Why do some boat makers supply them as standard equipment with your purchase? Are those manufacturers unaware of the liability they assume by providing them to unsuspecting loons? What good could they possibly serve? Are these nitwits deliberately trying to kill their customers? Is it a government plot to exterminate undesireable paddling scum? Why has not your legislature outlawed these flawed and dangerous devices?

Surf Zone, When Big, Always Leashed.

– Last Updated: Aug-08-07 8:15 PM EST –

on my waveski, the paddle is leashed to the clip in between the footstraps. In surf boat, I have 12" cord leash from paddle to my wrist.

Works for me. Saved me three times in winter surf when I got stripped. Pulled the leash, paddle back in hand, rolled up and went back to surfing.

Before using paddle leash, got stripped twice in big surf. Once in winter surf. Bad swim in alone. Hung on to paddle and boat but got bashed around and cut.

Don't care what others think of the leash. Don't care what others think of the seat belt and "suicidal knee blocks" in my surf boat either. These have worked for me. That's what counts -- my own experience in the conditions that I like to be in.

sing

Try One
Try one. If you like it use it until you don’t like it anymore or keep on using it if you do.

Sounds to me like you are parroting
someone else, perhaps a higher authority. Do you have actual experience here?



“And forget the knife bit in moving water - the water at least will limit the movement of your arms, if you are still holding onto the paddle it can make it impossible to move around on one side. Ths happens even in a tidal race in seemingly big open ocean water. Of course that only gets noticed if your body isn’t in the wrong place against a rock or strainer to start with. Getting to the knife is problematical, let alone having the ability to cut the line before you would be out of air.”



Nothing stirs up the dogma like knives on PFD’s, leashes, rudders, skegs, feathered or unfeathered. Do what you want, but try it out either way and see what works for ya.



Dogmaticus

I think…
that few would be nuts enough to argue with your seat time and experience. I don’t know enough about the real surf stuff to be aware of usual practices, just that it is a distinct discipline.