Finding convincing evidence that reinforces what we already believe is the easy part. Recognizing there is also good evidence in contradiction to our established beliefs, and being open to [really] hearing it, is a challenge worth accepting IMO.
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I couldn’t agree more. The perception of reality and truth is something most of us at some point in our life have not understood although we think we do. We are conditioned beings and while some truths are set in stone and accepted by all like 2+2=4 other truths are more personal and reflect on how we have been conditioned.
The world of conditioning is all around us and we have been taught to believe some things at face value because the source of the information is believed to be infallible. We are a people that are opposed to social conflict within the group we identify with closely. Those groups are part of lager groups and on and on. So most of us accept truths without digging deeper and if we do find changes we quickly displace them or fall out of favor within our group.
What may have been the truth of our parent’s or grandparent’s generation may no longer be our truths.
The test is to look and try and find actual truths that have no bias or influence built in. That used to be called science. Today science is even controlled and influenced in the directions of groupthink.
It is indeed hard for most of us to look at any problem from 2 different points of view and let reality lead us to a truth.
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Maine has permit requirements for campfires in some places. In others no permit is required… Those sites come with campfire rings.
No need to transport firewood. It is readily available .Just dive into the forest where you will find wood and blackflies.
Our experience in Tofino (BC) was that campers burned green wood too close to other campers and it made us miserable. I thought “oh well, sooner or later the fire will go out” but they were smoking pot and staring into the fire for a WEEK and never moved. Mixed with the marine layer that rolls in at sundown, it was unbearable, we had to move on.
Having so many years in California I’ve been conditioned that fire is the devil 
just like some people feel no PFD is the devil.
So I get your points 
We only use a tiny Jet Boil to cook all our meals.
It’s just cultural! Even regional.
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Great picture - those mountains in the background are amazing. I could be happy just sitting there looking at that view. Doesn’t look like there is much wood for a fire there anyway.
I started off as a camp stove person, but over time have gravitated more towards cooking on the fire because that is what my usual crew likes to do. May be a cultural thing, definitely a regional thing, and depends on the trip you are doing - long days with early starts don’t lend themselves to lounging around the fire. I’m good either way.
I have a Jet Boil Flash for my small stove. Great for boiling water for freeze dried meals, but I find it tough to cook on. The heat is concentrated in the center. You seem to manage fine - do you use regular pans. I was thinking about getting a more general purpose small stove. Anyone have suggestions on small camp stoves.
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As an “Ancestral style person” I completely get the appeal of a fire, especially with a group.
We moved here from Newport (War College) during lockdowns so we did not do any camping although we hiked in Maine.
That spot is in the Italian Alps where the rules are nonexistent above the tree line.
Sometimes where we are camping it’s an unwritten rule that’s it’s ok to wild camp even though technically not legal. So that’s another reason we are always three minutes from stashing our stuff. No one has ever “found us” but if they approached it would be easier if there was no fire 
because it would likely be the difference in a fine or not.
The rule many places is it’s okay to “rest to refresh yourself” but that means don’t pull out the chairs.
Regarding pans, my husband uses a DeBuyer fancy pan because he likes the char just so and is usually cooking a steak or pork chop. He does the vegetables in the same pan. The thing I like the best is we bought some Japanese cast steak plates on eBay and he heats those up.
After a long search, I bought a Trangia cook kit for kayak camping. Mine is the 25 model with gas burner stove, two small pots, skillet, and handle, to which I added a non-stick saute pan, pan stand, strainer lid, and 4.5L billy pot. The whole lot plus small fuel canister nests inside the billy pot, which is about 9"x6". I cook for our family of four.
The smaller Trangia model is the 27, which is sized for 1-2 people. That kit is only 7"x4" packed.
I usually carry a small sterno can and folding pot stand for keeping things warm on the side. But I’ve got a new Trangia alcohol burner to try this summer in place of the sterno can, for meals where I actually need to cook on the second burner. I’ll have to improvise a wind screen.
An alternative we considered seriously was the Jet Boil Basecamp System. The system is a clam shell two-burner stove, skillet, and pot. The stove stores in the pot and the skillet goes on top. It’s 10"x7" packed. We really liked the idea of having a second gas burner, but the size was borderline too big and there would have been more extra stuff to carry with it in our portage pack.
For example, the regulator doesn’t fit in the pot, which kind of makes the carrying bag necessary because it has a pouch for the regulator. The regulators notoriously fail, so I’d have to bring a spare. I couldn’t fit a fuel canister in there either. I’d still like to have a second, smaller pot. And I’d have to jerry rig a wind screen because the plastic sheet it comes with doesn’t work. For car camping, the stove, fuel, and extras would go in a milk crate no problem.
Since we liked the burner, we also looked at the Jet Boil HalfGen, which comes with skillet. That’s 9"x4". We’d have to add nesting pots and come up with a windscreen for it. For our cooking, I couldn’t see any advantage over the Trangia, but it seems like a good option if you’re looking for a base camp style burner that you can carry by canoe if not kayak.
I also looked at backpacking cook sets, but these are just your basic screw on canister stove + pot combo designed for boiling water, with an extra pot or mug and maybe a small skillet added. I didn’t see anything designed for packability and cooking performance.
One other product I’d like to mention for canoe camping is the Cobb BBQ. We use it as our base camp cooker. It does everything on charcoal: grill, roast, smoke, bake, fry, boil. And it packs into a 12" cube box with skillet/wok, pot, cutting board, charcoal, the sterno can & pot stand, utensils, and pot holders. I love it for the long roasts and smokes I can do on it, and cooking on the big skillet/wok. But given that it’s charcoal, you have to plan around the warm up time, and there’s more to clean.
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It’s definitely regional/cultural. Where I grew up in western NY, we rarely had fires in the summer. Even when camping, we only made a fire if we were going to cook on it.
But here in New England, it would be a breach of etiquette among my family and friends to host a summer party without a fire to gather around. When we go camping, every tent site will have a campfire every night. Some of them will keep their fires going non-stop for their whole stay, which can get to be a little annoying if there’s no wind.
I’ve been here over 20 years, but I’m still getting used to it. Unless it’s for warmth or cooking, I could do without a fire.
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Re camp stoves, I am so old school that I have held on to my early 1970s vintage Bleuet Gaz butane cartridge stove, even though they long ago stopped making the fuel cans for it. Other than for winter camping (butane freezes at low temps and your can will rattle unless you sleep with it), nothing ever compared for convenience and heat control with infinite output range on the burner and without the mess and stink of liquid fuels. For winter I used a Phoebus “coffee can” white gas stove with integrated pressure pump. Still have that too and it can melt snow like a blowtorch.
Glad I hoarded that Bleuet though, because in recent years I have collected nearly a dozen vintage intact fuel cans from people who found them stashed in their closets. Since I typically got 3 hours of burn time from a can that is a nice stash to have on hand. My local outfitter who has a gear consignment department knows that if anyone brings any of them in to sell, I will take them. These canisters are completely sealed metal containers that can only be opened by piercing the top with the gasketed needle by spinning on the stove valve when the fuel can is mounted in the frame.
The stubby plastic 4-sided base that came with the Bleuets sucks but I long ago found the folding metal tripod for a Coleman propane lantern perfectly fits the canister base and makes it dead stable even for larger pots. Used to have the lantern top too but gave it away – since you have to leave the canisters on the device until the gas is used up, it was too bulky to carry both the stove and lantern for packpacking, I realize the single use cans technically contribute to the waste stream, but being steel I think they are recyclable.
I don’t trust more recent versions of this type of stove like the Peak One I had for a couple of years (they all have removable valve mechanisms and “self-sealing” fuel canisters). The Peak One’s valve failed while it was in my car overnight parked in my brother’s driveway and I opened the door in the morning to a vehicle filled with propane. Good thing I am not a smoker.
Me too! But I only have a couple of cartridges left so will have to monitor the flea markets and yard sales more carefully.
Back in the day we used to stay up around a campfire till late. These days though everyone is pretty much ready to hit the sack by dark. A fire can sure be useful when the mosquitoes are thick, but nowadays it seems like everyone uses butane stoves. I like this one, doesn’t tip: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0829RKQXZ
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Rule with our group is stay up until 10:00. Have to admit, that is the rule that is most frequently broken. 
Got out for a little overnighter with GF’s grandson night before last. Its amazing how peaceful and restorative even the smallest little overnight river camp can be - grand adventures are nice, but its the little ones that keep us in touch with the natural world and keep us sane. This one ended 11 miles from my house. (And it sure helps to have a protected scenic riverway, like the Wisconsin River, close at hand. Here was an afternoon where one really had to strain to hear a man-made sound, except for the sound of a distant train in the evening. (And that’s sort of pleasant to my mind…) We saw maybe two fishing boats and two other paddlers while we were out.
Sandbar camping. Looked like this:
Grandson in yellow dancer kayak:
Downstream view of camp:
The road leads ever ever on:
Fire from wood found on sandbar (Thanks to the beaver who cut our main log and, no, the chair is not on fire or even close):
Keys to the kingdom (Perception Dancer and Bell Mystic):
Life is good.
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I call what you did recalibration for the soul.
We still stay up at least until 9 usually later. I’m often the last to call it a night. Collect standing dry wood so we aren’t carrying pests in wood from elsewhere.
Companionship around a fire seems to fit perfectly together with the night.
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We’re part pre Neanderthals but advanced enough so fire doesn’t frighten us.
Not only does it not frighten us, its quite comforting - as is river travel. I think I agree with Sig Olsen that there’s some sort of H. sapiens species memory that comes into play here. People likely have been sitting beside rivers and conversing around campfires from before written language, formal government, possibly in the company of Neanderthals or other hominid species (?)… Its a very deep-seated thing in our DNA in any case. Its comforting. Like coming home. Its where we belong.
The very best a board like this can do for paddlers is approximate a digital campfire in the absence of the real thing. Anything more is icing on the cake, but not the cake itself.
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I’m more afraid of starting a fire than drowning, honestly. So many years in Cali and Hawaii put the fear in me. I do not think I could change my mindset and conditioning. That one on the sand looks pretty acceptable.
My hikers are on day eight, on the glide path to finish, four countries in ten days.
Breakfast sounds so good… I paddle lots of western rivers, some deep canyons, the summer canyons breed after noontime winds. So you skip breakfast (Gotta have coffee though) and do all your travel from 6AM to noon. But, but, but, why is it the wind is almost always on the nose?
many times I’ve thought and questioned, “Why Lord? Why a headwind? Is a tail wind too much to ask for? I guess you figure somebody else needs that head wind more than I need a tail wind.”
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Hot air rises, wouldn’t that take it to higher ground, up the river?