And…
Something I did not address in my other posts which I probably should have is that I am really impressed with P&H as a company. The quality of this boat and the one other P&H boat I had which was a very old Bahiya were both outstanding. Both had a nice and neat build, and seemed quite strong. The Bahiya was apparently strong but was super light still as well. The Aries is not so light. I don’t know the measured weight but it feels about as heavy as my 62 pound Explorer. It’s solid though for sure.
I also like P&H’s forward thinking. The design of the Cetus impressed me as being rather unconventional and now the Aries is quite a bit more unconventional. Details like the forward day hatch and a quality seating arrangement are pretty nice as well. Frankly I also like the oval Kayaksport rear hatches. Of course that is a matter of preference, but I prefer kayaksport hatches over Valley hatches.
One characteristic I have noticed with both the Cetus and Aries is that they have high primary stability and secondary stability that kicks in fairly early. As such they feel to me like they don’t need to be edged as much to turn. That is something that I am not used to and I am not sure that I like since I like to edge boats deeply; however, I think it will appeal to a wider range of paddlers and that they have satisfied the market’s demand in this regard.
Matt
What’s so unconventional?
I look at the pictures and scratch my head. It looks like a sea kayak.
How is the Aries Unconventional?
Well that’s a fair question I guess.
I would say that the handling, design, and intended niche are all unique. First my comments on handling are comparing it to the boats I have owned or paddled. For the purposes of perspective this includes several shorter boats such as the Romany, Romany Surf, Avocet, Chatham 16, Nordkapp LV and Dagger Meridian (and a slew of longer ones–Explorer, Greenlander Pro, Bahiya, Legend and others.). I have not owned or paddled a Pintail or Anas Acuta which may be the only boats to compare to the maneuverability of the Aries. I also have not owned a Cetus but did paddle one once and I thought it too had a little bit different stability profile.
The Aries is much more maneuverable than anything I have paddled and turns differently than most sea kayaks in that the boat will actually spin, also is the somewhat odd characteristic of the “slicey” stern. Not conventional for a sea kayak. The stability profile is also quite different. If you paddled one then you will likely agree that the boat is “unconventional.” It is unlike any other sea kayak I have paddled.
As to the niche of the boat—I believe this boat is really aimed specifically at play and not to be good at both play and touring like many of the 16 footers out there. That is somewhat unique and perhaps unconventional. Most sea kayaks are really touring boats that we play in, rather than boats aimed at playing. My understanding is that they tried to incorporate some characteristics of a whitewater boat into a sea kayak. I think that they really aimed to create a maneuverable and playful boat and were not concerned about tracking or load carrying, etc. which would be important considerations for an all-around boat, which this boat probably is not.
Last are the differences in design. The boat has hard chines at the bow and stern and a rounded chine in the middle along with a very flat bottom. The chines are fairly unique in this regard and that combined with the flat bottom probably explain the stability profile differences. The boat has extreme rocker at the bow which is very out of proportion to the rocker at the stern, and the cockpit is set back fairly far.
I would describe it as being fairly unconventional. Perhaps unique is a better word—either way though the boat is quite different.
Matt
Thanks Matt
great insight as usual.
paddled some ww with Marshall
who owns ‘the river connection’, and I gotta’ say the guy is smooth and very competent. Nice to see you gave him some business, and I’d recommend any yakkers, sea/ww/whatever, looking for experience behind the sale and good answers to any questions to look him up. He’s on this forum from time to time.
Hey Matt!
You and I go a ways back - as we seem to share taste in boats and often get the same ones!! (literally)
In this case - I actually just got the “other” P&H Aries that Marshall had for sale…yea, the all-yellow with white keelstrip/trim - so thanks for leaving me this one!! Still haven’t picked it up from Marshall yet (waiting till I move to my new place) so am loving this writeup and thread!
It sounds as if this boat shares characteristics with the Tiderace Xtra and it’s flat midsectioned hull, hard chines, etc etc. Will be fun to learn more about it and will pick it up in the next 10 days or so.
Paddle on, Matt!
Scott
Aries/Delphin unconventionality
I’d agree with Matt that the Aries and Delphin are quite “unconventional” in the world of sea kayaks. Seeing a picture of one may not tell you much, but look at one in person, and paddle one, and I think you’ll agree. Concave sections under the bow, the flat stern sections, and the volume distribution are unusual. The way it handles is unique enough that I don’t generally teach in it, because it doesn’t provide a good model of what students are trying to achieve with their conventional boats. It skids sideways across eddylines like a ww boat, rather than tracking across the way other sea kayaks do. And the loose stern makes it respond differently to some strokes.
Not the perfect boat for everything, but I think it the aries and delphin are great additions to the kayak designs that are available.
cool!
Scott,
yeah that’s kind of funny. Glad you are getting the boat. I would love to hear your thoughts when you pick it up. I really think you will find it to be radically different from anything you have paddled. You may not like it at first–I didn’t. It takes some getting used to in order to appreciate its attributes.
I have actually hear good things about the TR Xtra. When I was down at Tybee some folks down there were saying very positive things about it and described it as Tide Race’s best design so far. I would imagine that may be one of the few boats that might compete with the Aries for a playboat, but I have never paddled one.
Matt
I would add
It has whitewater outfitting from their Pyranha line, creating a solid bond with the paddler. I’d like to have that in all my sea kayaks.
"I think the boat is a keeper."
Hi Matt,
Are you finally going to break down and maintain a quiver of boats? The Aires is niche boat, so you should be keeping your current Explorer.
I’ve heard very good things of the Aires and Delphin but have yet had the chance to play in either. I’m curious how they might compare to the new Valley Gemini boats.
BTW, you really do owe it to yourself to play in a Pintail sometime. It is the sweetest boat I’ve paddled. It is a niche boat, and I don’t plan on owning one, but I wouldn’t turn one down 
Delphin is good, I hear Aries is great;)
The Delphin is really very different from a regular sea kayak. You don't feel its true strengths until you paddle it in moving water, preferably strong currents or surf.
Where "conventional" kayaks all more or less behave the same, the Delphin is I think unique, even compared to a Gemini or others, in that it has flat bottom at the stern and, effectively at the bow. What this means is that it is not affected by currents like these other sharp or V shaped bottom boats are. I used mine pretty much exclusively in white water on the Potomac, the section below Great Falls called Mather Gorge. See this for instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atEmffsx97s&sns=em
I can just peel out from an eddy and go where I want. With a boat of the same length and lots of rocker, like the WS Zephyr 15.5, the bow is immediately caught by the current and by the time the rest of the boat is out of the eddy, the bow is swept downstream. Not so with the Delphin - lean a bit back, keep it flat, and it slides over the current, "planing" out over the eddy line and into the main current. Once there, give it a bit of edge and it tracks straight for a cross-ferry and goes where you want it. It behaves like a planing hull white water boat. It has good primary stability and that allows you to focus on your paddling rather than bother with balance.
Yet, because of the swede form, despite the square-ish bottom, it has decent top end speed to attain upriver or catch waves. Not fast for cruising and glide is not good, but is just fine to keep-up with casual paddling groups or to get to play spots.
I hear the Aries is just like that, except it is a bit livelier being stiffer and a few pounds lighter. Have not paddled it so can't compare. I don't think there is another boat that works quite like the Aries/Delphin (whether that's good for one's needs I'm not making a judgement here).
Edit: forgot to mention, that despite the short length, it can actually haul quite a bit of stuff - today I went out with my newly acquired Nordkapp RM and was really surprised that my kayak cart won't fit in the rear compartment due to the pinched bottom shape of the Nordkapp's hull. It fits (even with larger wheels) in the Delphin and even fits behind the seat in my WW kayak (Dagger Axiom 8.5) so this is a really small cart... It did fit in the front, barely on the Nordy... So, the square hull of the Delphin/Aries actually has good volume for loading compared to its length end other boats that had pinched ends...
A bit of perspective…
I have only paddled the Delphin 150 & 155, while I agree they're very good play boats I don't believe they re-wrote the what's possible in a seakayak book. The same probably holds true for the FG model. Both test paddles were last year & many of us are a different paddler a year later, so maybe I'd think a bit differently now, but I doubt it. They do have some unique handling characteristics as stated by others, but IMO, for me, they weren't special enough for me to go away from a WS Zephyr,(which is a pretty exceptional playboat IMO). I will tell you that after one test paddle in a Sterling Reflection, I was more than impressed enough to buy it. It's unfortunate these boats aren't more available. And yes, for the record, Sterilng's Reflection has rewritten the what's possible in a seakayak book. Feel free to read my humble review on this site's review page & definitely check out The Hurricane Riders latest four video series "The Push" I, II, III & IV,(there you can see some of what sets the Reflection apart from the Delphin & other boats).
Enjoy your new boats, they are exceptional,(just not as exceptional as my new boat :) ).
All the best, t.george, a.k.a. tOM
interesting
I have not heard of that boat, but sounds like it may be pretty cool.
So I have to ask you what someone asked above about the Aries–what makes the Reflection so different? You mention that it has rewritten the book on what a sea kayak can do. I took a quick look at their website and saw some pictures of the Reflection (but they were pictures of it in the water). I could not get a good look at the chines or bottom, but the hull in the water looked to have little difference from a typical 16 foot Brit boat in that it did not appear to have a tremendous amount of rocker or any radical design characteristics.
Just curious about what sets that boat apart.
matt
WS Zephyr is “conventional”
I replaced my Zephyr 15.5 with the Delphin 155 and I feel, for whitewater and currents the Delphin offers a significant jump in capabilities over the Zephyr. The Delphin spins around faster with no hard edging necessary (you don't want to be edging hard just to turn in pushy whitewater). It also has higher primary stability and s a lot less affected by currents and boils. The Delphin gives you a lot more latitude to the angle at which you can attack eddy lines, where the Zephyr you have to pretty much point it perfectly or it will swing out of control by the current.
And yes, please explain about the Reflection. Other than light weight and customization of the deck height, it looks a lot like a Romany with extra rocker and more pinched ends.... And maybe that's all there is to it - the wide mid section and pinched ends allow great turning when on edge and the rocker and ability to affect the trim of the boat by leaning back and forward allow to release the font and rear on demand. Since I have never even seen one of these in person, I too am curious for someone to explain what makes the boat "special" in specific terms and try to relate that to design attributes.
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz33szsc_Y4&sns=em
I think it’s Reg & Sterling…
…and maybe they have a stash of pixie dust, 'cause the boat is, well, magic.
Check out the THR videos I mantioned and you can see it for yourself. Links to the vids on Sterling’s facebook site or directly on “The Hurricane Riders” facebook. One or two of the vids shows one of the THR crew surfing a Delphin while most of the others are in Sterling’s Relection, Grand Illusion or Marty in his creation from ,(I believe), a Romany.
Check it out, you’ll enjoy it, tOM
I’ve seen those before
I can see how the Reflection turns really well in the surf with an extreme edge (bow is up, stern slicing). The Delphin can’t do that, as it’s edges make it track straighter, however, I think the Delphin is looser on top of waves and less affected by whitewater and currents. Different boats, I think… But, I believe even pixie dust has a recipe, and I’d like to hear what folks who paddle a Reflection feel the specific ingredients and their effect are 
BTW Kocho…
I agree with you about ww & currents observations for the Delphin vs Zephyr. They are very different boats though their capabilities are not far apart IMO, though achieved through differing strengths. I really didn’t spend that much time in the Delphin since it was not what I was looking for; just didn’t wow me.
The Reflection I find super responsive anywhere on a wave ,or on flat water for that matter, inside or outside edge. It does not seem to need to be edged to the extreme to respond, but particularly at speed will thrill when laid over hard onto the inside edge. Also the secondary is such that it’s extremely forgiving, allowing my limits to be pushed. The rocker is obviously a big part of the pixie dust, the chines and planing hull as well, I don’t have a clue as to why the ends free up as well as they do unless it’s pixie dust. It just continues to wow me, allowing me to do at will things I previously only pulled off on rare hard earned occasion.
I’m just really loving it, but am finding it a bit strange & off my game when in any of my other boats. Wish I had more for you but that’s all I got.
All the best, tOM
Thanks!
Great info. I’ve had my eye on these for a while, but don’t have where to really put them to good use where I live…
Reflection
Yes, the Reflection does sound pretty cool…
Reflection vs Tiderace Xtra vs Aires
I would love to see a comparison between these three boats from a real Tiderace paddler…
I have a friend who owned a Delphin that replaced it with an Aires that he said had more hull speed and was quicker responding on the waves.
I owned a TR Xtra but sold it (regretably) when I thought all I would paddle anymore was surfskis. That boat was surfed briefly by a well-known east coast paddler/coach/instructor (G.P.) who loved it and thought it was very technical and capable.
The only Reflection boats I have heard of are on the wrong coast though - and wonder how they would fare in East Coast washing machine/short period chop vs the bigger conditions on the west coast. We just don’t have any “Smack Walls” out here that I know of.
That being said though, there are more than enough “rough water play boats” for a thorough review by Sea Kayaker Mag or others out there. I would even renew my subscription just to read that review!! And let’s not forget the existing play boats out there aka Romany, Avocet, Pintail, etc etc either.
Too many toys, not enough time!!! (or cash)
Scott