good point
one of the negatives for smaller paddlers is that the average kayak is too big or will get blown down wind easily. The Sirius is anchored in the water well and has excellent cockpit fit. My friend liked it for that reason, in high winds the strong tracking gave her time to respond to the waves whereas a more maneuverable kayak would get blown by the wind as well as tossed by the waves.
Older than Capella, Andromeda, etc…
The Sirius is a relatively early Derek Hutchinson design - well before he designed any boats for Current Designs. The Andromeda is, in a way, Hutchinson’s version of the Sirius for CD.
but for the inexperienced
This boat could be a handful in rough water for an inexperienced kayaker.
Poster mentioned inexperienced & texas coast.
And if doing solo trips a more foregiving
boat might be appreciated. This was one of my first boats, flat water felt great rough water
took some getting used to.
understood
– Last Updated: Aug-21-07 11:14 AM EST –
Sirius predates Andromeda.
My point is that the Capella, Vela, Quest are more well rounded designs and the Sirius off in a niche. My impression is that Derek prefers well rounded designs. If he liked a niche design I think he'd profile it in his videos as his personal craft. That's why I am speculating on it's development as an extrapolation of an existing design like the Capella. It's distinctly v'd bottom and very hollow ends results in a hull shape that is not as efficient for moving through the water as a design with a higher prismatic coefficient and more rounded hull.
Do you have any info about the history of Sirius development and other P&H kayaks?
It's gestation may be seperate from the Capella and it developed on it's own but I find a hard tracking rough water kayak a kind of an anomaly. Most rough water kayaks I like are maneuverable and aren't so v'd in the hull.
ebay description
"The unique hull shape gives it an extraordinary amount of stability for a boat of this beam."
I wonder how many other kayaks this person has owned.
Hutchinson, Orton, and P&H
My understanding is that Hutchinson designed the Orion and Sirius for P&H. The Gulfstream is his version of the Orion for Current Designs.
Peter Orton (now running Valley) designed the Vela. I think the Quest and Capella are post Hutchison designs. Orton likely was involved with these designs.
Couldn’t be many
Or they are used to racing kayaks. The one thing that just about everyone I have encountered agrees with is that the Sirius has “interesting” initial stability.
thanks
the reason I ask is that the one time I went paddling with Derek I got the impression that the Gulfstream is his prefered hull shape and he wasn’t a fan of tippy boats. I could be misinterpreting his comments but I wonder how much the Sirius was a learning experience in design that worked for a short person but less so for taller people.
either/or
– Last Updated: Aug-21-07 1:09 PM EST –
it felt happy on one side of the centerline or the other. I saw someone paddling a round bottomed baidarka that way once. A 20" wide FuturaII surfski has what I'd describe as surprising stability for it's beam.
yep
like the foster boats the sirius feels like it wants to be on one side or the other when paddling slowly on flat water or siting still. it comes alive in rough water, where it’s stability profile is more reassuring. for someone just getting into kayaking it wouldn’t be my first choice nor would i use it if i, for example, wanted to go birding or to explore slow moving streams etc.
Quote is from P&H’s description
?
“for it’s beam” appears to imply more stability than expected for a 20.5" hull, more acceleration than expected for a 20.5" hull.
“remarkably stable”? By any objective measure it is not remarkably stable
http://www.phseakayaks.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=3
“Fast, of excellent stability for its beam and able to perform well in a variety of sea and weather conditions, the Sirius is a fine example of classic design in harmony with modern materials, technology and quality. This kayak is extremely quick for its beam yet remarkably stable.”
more stable loaded,
which was part of its intended purpose/function. Unladen, I watched a Sirius eject a newbee for no apparent reason on flat water. It’s definitely a different boat when it’s packed, moving, in textured water, or all of the above. I think the contrast on the Sirius is greater than most boats, and needs to be a big consideration (whether or not it will usually be loaded) when thinking about buying one.
seat height
I wonder if the Sirius is one of those boats that went through a change of seat height in it’s years of production.
it is not fast
P&H and Sirius owners regularly assert it is a fast kayak.
As Jay noted it is not. At 20.5" beam the Silhouette is much faster, heck an Aquanaut is faster at 21.5" width.
my impression as well
that hull shape with long pinched ends is not what you do to make a kayak fast, likewise the “remarkable stability” ,it’s not stable,period.
Thanks for all the input . . .
. . . didn’t sound like a good first kayak for a noob.
Sirius
My first kayak was a Sirius hf (the high volume version). before buying it, I had taken a 3 hour introductory course. 5 years before. I don’t think there is much difference in width between the 3 versions. I’m 200 lb and I did get dumped once or twice learning, but after the first year i took pictures from it no problem. It is not as fast as advertised, but very easy to paddle at less than top speed, and not hard to roll. With a side wind, your buddies get blown off to the side, you’re still on course. Mine had the recess for the spare paddle, the other option was a day hatch, the lack of which was the reason for selling it. Very well made boat, and a great learning platform if you take lessons and get comfortable with increasingly rougher water as you learn. I really enjoyed mine, and do not regret buying it.
7 Years of Sirius S ownership
Coming from a racing background I found the Sirius stability at rest is tender compared to several other sea kayaks. Similar to riding a bike a very slow speed. Once under way stability is fine. Where this boat comes to shine is when the conditions turn to snot. I don’t think its a great choice of boat for a newbie unless your willing to go thru a learning curve.
a keel
I think that’s why it appeals to folks familiar with paddling in stinky stuff, it’s anchored well in the water. The Express I had was nearly opposite, fairly neutral to weathercocking and I had to point higher into the wind and power through the wind but I could turn on a dime anywhere on the wave. With the Sirius you won’t immediately blow downwind when you ease up on effort.