What do you disagree with?
I thought that I was saying that the paddle was an important part of the program.
I recall the elbows being upstream of
the wrists. You’re getting a lot of idealistic wrist advice on here, and it turns out the problem is in your elbows.
I’d suggest proper sizing of your entire setup, boat, paddle blade, paddle shaft, and even your seating position, regarding hip and knee support. Along with that, check your form. You don’t need zero wrist bend and exaggerated torso rotation, just low wrist bend and good rotation. You shouldn’t be bending your upper arm a lot and then “punching” the catch. Don’t pull the blade past your hip, because that may add wrist strain. Most of the work is done in front of you, whether canoeing or kayaking.
If you’re taking NSAIDs (aspirin, Motrin, Aleve) for your tendinitis, go easy. All NSAIDs interfere with the inflammation --> healing process. Take NSAIDs if you need them to function, but back off if you’re not hurting. Ibuprofen is not a vitamin.
Get help on stroke first
Most people starting out are paddling with poor form. While you are getting help with that, make sure you are using a paddle with a relatively small blade face. Speed is cadence, not huge paddle blades. Too big a blade can be hard to get thru the water at a good cadence,
GP has helped many, but it can be more difficult to get fitted well for one if you have smaller hands. Certainly can be done, but you’ll have to go a bit custom (I have small hands and it took a couple of tries to get it right).
the paddle CAN be the problem
Of course form can be the cause. But once you’ve got the proper form down, blades that are too large or a shaft that is too large for your grip can also overload the muscles and tendons.
Werner and a few others offer a choice of shaft diameters, try them out and see which feels best. Also something to consider if you’re thinking about a GP.
yes and no
The OP is renting. Probability of a company purchasing a decent paddle for rental setup is not that high.
SO, that paddle is likely to be sized for an average person, not a female running towards small. The shaft is likely to be regular. The paddle is likely on the heavy side - they do last longer for rentals.
All of the above can, probably, lead to some problems, but I would suspect wrists and shoulders to be first to go with a crappy paddle.
Then it is time to consider stroke mechanics. The OP is a beginner. While it is possible that she is one of those naturals that developed a perfect stroke, probability is not that high. A stroke class might be worth the time. Or a paddling class.
The warm water is nearly upon us. Considering that OP is from the Northern Illinois, there might be some not too expensive ways to get instruction.
I know that Geneva Kayak out of Chicago have very good instructors. Sharon Bloyd-Peshkin is of a rather small build, might be best suited to address the paddle fit issues.
Also, the Door County Sea Kayak symposium is beginning paddler friendly, they also have a wide selection of instructors.
End of May typically brings WMCKA ( West Michigan Coastal Kayak Association ) symposium at Camp Pendalouan, another beginner friendly gathering. I believe it is even possible to arrange for top notch gear rental. Some of the instructors specialize in Greenland style kayaking as well.
Didn’t catch the rental part
– Last Updated: Apr-03-12 12:40 PM EST –
Agree with above - rental equipment is hard on smaller people and small hands. Heavy, big around and probably not so good in terms of giving a nice catch.
Go to the symposiums and gatherings mentioned above, there are good options out there but they won't be in typical rental fleets. For that matter, the boat is probably too big and deep as well.
Lots of advice - hmmmm
– Last Updated: Apr-03-12 1:16 PM EST –
The problem is that your tendonitis is specific to your own joints/muscle/tendons. A big heavy paddle that is too big for your hands obviously is not helping. Most people find that going from a feathered to an unfeathered paddle also relieves tendonitis (This is heresy among hard core paddlers, but I would suggest trying unfeathered and see if it helps.) Greenland paddles are cool, but not necessary. When I started kayak surfing I had problems with tendonitis and ended up I was gripping the paddle way too tightly - relaxing the hand at the end of the stroke and keeping a firm but not over tight grip helped. Also I bought a custom Onno paddle. These are high quality and less expensive than some of the big name brands. Send Pat at Onno a note and see how much it would cost to make a light paddle for small hands.
Finally I used an elbow band that you can buy at a drug store to put a little pressure on the tendon and it relieved pain and helped from hurting the tendon while paddling. Once I switched to a light, no feather paddle. I never had issues again. But your bones and tendons are different, you will need to experiment a bit.
Tendons connect muscles …
The tendon in the elbow is actually stressed by a tight grip of the hands, so upstream/downstream is not an issue if stress is transmitted throughout the muscle/skeleton system.
Make a tight fist and feel the muscles and tendons near where it hurts with your other hand… you will notice they are very tight when gripping …do the same around your paddle… will help you figure out how to change paddle size, grip etc.
I did electromyographic research on
muscles all up and down the arm, and I assure you, if her pain is up at the elbow, excessive wrist motion is not going to cause it. It is true that some tendons cross more than one joint, but the next question is, is her pain tendonitis at all, or caused by other ligaments, or muscles? Paddlers get “tennis elbow” as often as they get persisting wrist pain.
You refer to “the tendon” but there are
many. At each joint (elbow, wrist) there are two or more muscles for each action (flexion, extension, pronation/supination, wrist abduction/adduction). So when you suggest that a tight hand grip is affecting tendons up at the elbow, it is not possible for this reader to see what you are talking about.
Open hand redoux
To the OPer - if you open up the hand that is furthest away from the water, hence this will alternate hand to hand as you go thru the strokes, it will both keep things moving and help some portion of the musculature involved stay loose.
Since no one commenting here can actually see you paddle, only you can gauge what effect it has on your discomfort. But it is a good idea in general, and it might help.
Why Not?
From your research,why couldn’t wrist movement cause pain at the elbow. Several muscles that act on the wrist or that cross it originate at the elbow?
Name them.
Really?
– Last Updated: Apr-03-12 6:17 PM EST –
Flexor carpi radialis, Flexor carpi ulnaris, extensor carpi radialis longus and brevis , extensor carpi ulnaris, flexor digitorum superficialis, extensor digitorum longus . I think I am missing a couple, on some people flexor pollicis.
Can you please explain from your research why these muscle couldn,t cause elbow pain.
Thanks
Summary + One Thing To Add…
The topic has been pretty well covered, so my point to add is in the first bullet item below. Let’s itemize the things that can all be causes of wrist/elbow/shoulder pain:
- technique
Forces that are applied to joints must be mitigated by the soft tissues. The best paddling technique uses more torso rotation/back/hip muscles and little to no wrist or elbow. You don’t want to apply great force to the paddle, you want to keep things smooth and easy or the water has a nasty habit of being displaced by strong forces.
- paddle
Too large a blade, too long a blade, and feathering are the major items here - large blade size and a long shaft length require more muscle/force for each stroke.
- wide boat:
more of an issue than small hands is a boat that is, perhaps, too wide/beamy and which forces you to adjust the stroke to keep from hitting the sides.
- cadence :
(see long paddle above) is affected greatly by paddle length and blade size, as is degree of perceived or real fatigue. the paddle should be short enough for you to paddle for long periods with no pain and fatigue (as opposed to being tired - difference is that you can open and close you hand all day, but if you do it rapidly for 2 minutes, you’ll see the difference. A decent cadence is one which allows you to paddle at a sustainable rate (cyclists often have a cadence between 80-100/min and find that gearing that drops them below 60 causes great fatigue). Not sure what the ideal paddling cadence is, but near or just above 60 sounds likely.
- hands
relax the death grip on the paddle, which is likely what you are doing. I don’t actually grip the paddle except when forces may pull it from my hands. I cradle the paddle between thumb and finger on the “push” hand and cup it with fingers on the “pull” hand. It won’t get loose unless other forces (wind, waves, whitewater) are involved. When other forces are involved you may have to grip with one or both hands, but you really don’t need to grip tightly (I roll up using just the fingers on the hand of the “pull” side of the boat - didn’t know I did that until someone pointed it out to me).
Rick
Checking I have just completed suggests
that if her pain is on the medial side, it could be an instance of “golfers elbow” rather than “tennis elbow.” It would mean that repetitive finger flexor use could result in inflammation and damage to the attachment at the elbow.
I don’t know how close this is to your thinking. I did not find enough indications that the sort of clenching occuring while kayaking would create the golfers elbow condition. It seems quite unlikely to create “tennis elbow” but the flexor attachment might be aggravated and damaged by finger clenching.
I haven’t seen “golfers elbow” amongst oarsmen, scullers, canoe paddlers, or kayak paddlers. Or weight lifters, for that matter. But that her pain is near the elbow suggests she will have to check it out.
kay, click on the enclosed link and
carefully compare what you are experiencing with their list of symptoms for “golfers elbow.”
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/golfers-elbow/DS00713/DSECTION=symptoms
Make sure you pick up the entire link and copy it into the address line. Click back and forth, and consider googling for other sources on the condition.
excellent link (NM)
Unknown Location at elbow
We were never told where at the elbow the pain is. Why to assume lateral epicondylitis. Also we were not told if this tendonitis was preexisting or caused from paddling.
Still waiting for your explanation from your research where you assured us wrist movement couldn’t cause pain at the elbow.
Thanks
agreeing with blade size
I canoe, but have several different paddles. I developed tendonitis using a large blade paddle, and it went away when I went back to a smaller blade. Same technique, before, during and after. Bigger force equals greater stress.