I have to disagree with your second
paragraph.
If they are paddling on opposite sides, (as they should be), then it only stands to reason that they will veer of couse due to his power.
My wife is an excellent paddler, but in non windy conditions, if I don’t call a hut after about a half dozen strokes, or do a J stroke, we will turn off course.
jack L
Great racing in the Cities
Great bunch of racers up there. Get hooked up with some of them. I believe they meet once per week for a workout. Wish I lived closer.
Make sure to catch the Jensen Handicap.
http://www.mncanoe.org/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=709151
http://www.rice-creek-boat-club.org/2012-jensen-handicap-race
Alan
I sorta agree with kayamdeic
All things being equal…I mean all things. If you could clone the bow paddler and stern paddler, put the same paddler in the bow and stern…same cadence and same power…the boat will not go straight. The boat will turn. Why? The stern paddler is further away from the boat midpoint, therefor every stroke the stern paddler does will have a greater impact on the turning momentum of the boat, versus that of the bow paddler. One easy solution? The stern paddler needs to stop dragging paddle and possibly learn to compensate for the paddler in the bow with a shorter power stroke. With pratice, a tandem team should be able to travel quite a distance with minimal stern correction.
I suggest you look at something
besides a Voyager. Great boat if you want to go straight and fast and there is little or no wind.
A little rocker helps.
http://www.wenonah.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=37&SID=66ea1d6f04317139278ba8af6567afa0
Skills Mismatch?
For harmony and safety of the boat, I would sit astern. You can apply all the power you want and easily control the canoe this way, no matter who sits near the bow. Only sit at the bow when accompanied by an accomplished paddler, then you can apply all the power you want and expect the canoe to respond the way you want it to go: fast. The stern paddler controls the canoe, and no matter what the bow paddler does, the stern paddler can take remedial measures to counter or correct them. I saw Marge Cline demonstrate this years ago on the Columbia River during an ACA conference.
The nature of the problem is …
– Last Updated: May-07-12 8:06 PM EST –
... is not entirely clear to me. Are you just "paddling hard" or are you using appropriate correction strokes when you paddle from the stern? I get the impression that you expect to be able to paddle hard but not need correction strokes, but it doesn't work that way.
After paddling seriously, solo, for several years, I just recently got the chance to paddle tandem again after not doing so in ages. My tandem paddling has been with a woman who is much less strong than I am, but when she paddles from the bow we have experienced not one trace of a problem due to our differences in paddle power. Most of the time I match her stroke cadence, and since I've pretty-well mastered doing corrective strokes which have zero amount "paddle drag" after the stroke and therefore no lag time between successive strokes, I can match her cadence without sacrificing correction. When I need a break and want a stroke that better matches my longer arms and taller body, I use a cadence that is quite a bit slower than hers and paddle harder, but still have no problem. I find that no matter what, when paddling from the stern the amount of effort I put into the correction phase of the stroke is scarcely any different than that needed when paddling a solo canoe.
When you are in the stern, you should be able to control the boat's heading whether the bow paddler is 10-times stronger than you or a whole lot weaker. When you are at the stern, good technique will minimize the amount of "steering" that's imparted by the power phase of your own stroke (see Kayamedic's advice above), so that just a little flip of the blade toward the end of the stroke is all it takes to counteract the bit of "power steering" that can't be eliminated. By the same token, I think a weak paddler at the stern can compensate for anything a strong bow paddler can do, but it requires good technique, so if your wife is less interested in perfecting strokes than going boating, she'll be happier in the bow, in which case, basic steering is your job at the stern.
Someone pointed out in an earlier post that not much strength is needed for doing certain steering strokes from the bow, and in my short time at tandem paddling I've found that to be true (but I just read that post again and must point out that a reverse sweep performed from the bow of a canoe isn't really good for anything at all unless the boat is stationary or going backward. When going forward, there are several good bowman's strokes to use instead which are much more efficient and effective). Last week my bow paddler was working on static draws (on and off sides) and bow pries while taking advantage of the boat's forward speed, and pretty quickly she learned to crank the boat around, assisting in some very rapid 90- to 180-degree turns. Technique is certainly more important than strength in a lot of situations.
My technique
– Last Updated: May-07-12 12:54 PM EST –
My skills are most definitely sub par as I have only gotten my own canoe this year so I suspect that you are right in pointing the finger mostly at me. My partner is untrained as well so together we're not a very harmonious team at the moment. We'll do a class or 2 together though.
Im going to a couple classes/boat club get-togethers over the next couple weeks. I suspect some instruction from experienced paddlers will go a long way.
Also, thanks for the links to the rice lake boat club and the minneapolis/U paddling club. Im going to try to hit the one at the U tonight and will hit up rice lake when I get a chance.
Trim and Boat Control
I just thought I’d add that moving seats is usually not something recreational paddlers need to consider when adjusting trim. People with an interest in racing tend to be obsessive about degrees of trim that most people can’t even detect (a speed advantage of 0.0001 mph is more than enough to win a race, but who’d be aware of such a tiny difference if not going as fast as they can while alongside other paddlers who are working just as hard to win?). A 30-pound weight difference is not huge, and much of that can be offset simply by choosing where to place whatever gear you carry along. Just remember that at slow or moderate speeds, a boat that’s a little heavy in the stern is predictable and easy to control compared to a boat that’s a little heavy at the bow.
You didn’t say what kind of boat you have, but it’s worth noting that different canoe styles respond differently to steering forces, whether those forces are intentional or accidental. For example, a Prospector style of canoe, which usually has a fair amount of rocker, is so easy to turn that beginners often have trouble making it go a straight line. On the other hand, a fast, hard-tracking boat will be easy to paddle straight, but beginners are likely to be unable to make it turn nearly as sharply as a pair of experience paddlers could do. Perhaps you are in a boat that is easy to turn.
Its a great way to start
by getting some pointers. I have a funny story to relate.
Once upon a time a big guy stern paddler and a petite lady bow paddler finally got some instruction. But the first demand from the guy was for the instructor to watch them and tell them what she was doing wrong.
The instructor watched them and declared that she was doing fine however he had problems. And the guy accepted that and corrected his stroke after learning what was wrong and why canoe physics did not favor him and they learned to make beautiful canoe music.
They both advanced to become ACA Instructor Trainer Educators.
There is hope…None of us was born knowing how to paddle… (at least I think)
lessons well worth it
– Last Updated: May-07-12 2:36 PM EST –
My wife and I started paddling together in a tandem canoe, first rentals, and then our own Wenonah. One of the most helpful things for us was a short 1/2 hour video shown us by one of the rental liveries demonstrating entry/exit from the canoe, paddling strokes, and steering. That little bit of instruction made a HUGE difference in our paddling together effectively and enjoyably. I also found reading Bill Mason's "Path of the Paddle" very helpful in learning about more advanced strokes and canoecraft -- highly recommended. To get to the point.... a mere hour or two of lessons will dramatically improve your paddling and enjoyment. There is no reason for a tandem to be a "divorce" boat; rather it should be a source of pride and teamwork for the couple.
Get An OC2 with Rudder
– Last Updated: May-07-12 6:50 PM EST –
If you have access to a large deep water lake and lots of wind and chop. This way you'll get up to speed real fast and enjoy the paddling experience with the help of a rudder and being able to fully immerse the blade w/o damaging it in shallow water. With time, as both of you get into paddling condition; where all your joints, muscles, and other soft tissue gain familiarity with the movement; then it's time to seek out an accomplished paddler to learn more intermediate or advance techniques, like some of those fancy whirling swirling strokes, that will have both of you handling any rudderless double or single canoe like a pro.
My boat
My boat is a Wenonah Jensen 17’ I just got 2 weeks ago. So no rocker, thin boat. Still learning the ropes… Ill invest in a good paddling book too
Of note
all the FreeStyle Symposia teach basic canoeing so that efficiency in paddling comes from the get go. Not at some later point. FS is not about fancy. Its about getting your boat to go where you want to go without undue work and stress on your body.
For that reason FS gatherings are starting to market as canoe symposia… there is too much speculation about what FS is from those who have never been. But everyone has a pretty good idea of what a canoe instruction meet is.
Plus its a whole lot of fun playing with other canoeheads.
What does he do with the rudder when
he’s in the shallows, or on a shallow river? I took the rudder off my touring kayak, because for the lakes and rivers I travel, it’s useless.
There’s a reason tandem canoes almost never have rudders, even after a century or more where their benefits might have become obvious. Rudders are a drag and don’t contribute anything one can’t manage with paddles.
And, in the case of a strong paddler who is “humping” his strokes, a rudder only costs him some of the effort he puts in.
I’m a strong paddler, and my wife is relatively weak. When paddling long distances on lakes, I get the boat up to speed, and then I shorten my stroke to maintain an efficient cruise. When I was a “green” paddler, I kept humping even when the boat was just stuffing itself into its bow wave. No point in that. A firm catch, a short stroke, and a quick J that does not drag, and that’s cruising.
Amen to that !
Jack L
Thank you,
for I’ve edited out “freestyle.”
Thank you too!
For I understand what you’re saying about rudders, since I’m a rudderless outrigger paddler and a very long time “Sport Canoeist.”
tandem
First, it will get better. With time and experience you will learn to paddle together as a team. That’s if you don’t throw each other out of the boat first! One excersize that helped us (Me stern, wife bow) was telling her to relax and take a break once in a while. That allowed me to cool down and quit feeling like her strokes were in competition with mine. It also gave me an opportunity to see the effect of my steering and correction strokes on the course of the boat without interference from the bow.
Another thing really seemed to help was much later. Our kids were eventually big enough that we needed another canoe, and it was her turn to get in the stern and steer with our son paddling in the bow. After some tears and one full blown breakdown on a particularly windy day, she stuck with it and got the hang of it. It also allowed her to get a very different perspective on how a canoe handles.
Now that our son is starting to take an interest in the back seat, it amused me on a recent trip to overhear her telling him to be patient and take his
time, “steering a canoe isn’t something you can learn to do well in a half day.”
.
– Last Updated: May-14-12 10:05 AM EST –
We finally got some nice weather up here in MN and I took the boat out for its first extended paddling. We went down the St Croix departing from interstate state park and traveling a couple miles down stream, hanging out for a while then paddling back upstream.
We brought 80-100 lbs of stuff (we pack heavy, bring a table, grill, cooler, blankets ect) putting our total weight around 410-430lbs. I have to say I liked how the boat paddles either solo or loaded around 400lbs. Once we get going this boat moves! I really like how fast the Jensen is. It felt very stable with the extra weight too. Ive decided I love tumblehome on canoes.
I spent some time working on my stroke and got things down well enough that I could paddle on one side as long as I felt like. This was easier on my dominant side so Ill still have to work on my off stroke.
I still have to work on the J stroke as it didnt provide as much correction as I would like. I ended up angling the paddle towards the outside during the stroke combined with a small J move. Is angling the paddle an "acceptable" or "correct" method of paddling? Im going to the U of M's canoe racing class today so that should help my skills too.
Paddling back upstream really wasnt too bad either. I was really glad to have an efficient hull under me. Making it through the areas of strong current was a bit interesting but we made it alright. The river was fairly high too from the 4" or rain we got in the last 2 weeks. I almost like paddling upstream as I can go ape S#&% paddling and I get no crap from my lady =)
Overall it was very fun and I cant wait to get some more semi professional instruction
Sounds like you are doing a Canadian
stroke which swings wider and catches just the corner for correction.
It takes time to get the pull of extension along the top of your arm to be less bothersome. During that time, "air J’s are common. That can be corrected by better top arm extension. Both hands over the rail and torso rotation used to help with this. If you are seated torso rotation is harder to do.
The recers of course will have a completely different method of keeping course. Most likely they will be using hit and switch
And your education continues… there is more than one way to keep a boat going straight.
J
Stern Pry
Hit and switch
Canadian
Northwoods
Pitch