they should’ve sent a poe-. and they did
– Last Updated: Aug-24-12 8:41 AM EST –
typo- I meant "poet" =]
Yes that’s me
with Ken and using the old 2x4. Not getting out much these days, but maybe when it gets cooler I will get back into it.
Mark
mlr
MLR. Yes I remember that day I was windsurfing from Corpus Christi to Havanna and saw that whole encounter with the C-130. I remember thinking, " Damn those guys can paddle".
on a serious note…
– Last Updated: Aug-24-12 8:14 PM EST –
I think some of the humor has gotten away from the original question.
I would like to say a few things.
I think that people do tend to exagerate...the same way they do about anything. Unfortunately that is human nature.
I don't think all of it is intentional though I and think that there needs to be some boundaries on paddling speed.
I think that for most of us, if we averaged out speed over a long paddle, course of a day, etc, we would find out average speed to be 3-4mph.
However...I would not necessarily count that as my "crusing" speed. That average speed includes brakes, stopping to roll, etc.
Crusing speed over a moderate distance without stopping may be significantly higher than this, but who really paddles all day long without stopping to drink, pee, roll, etc. not me.
I like the way that Sea Kayaker magazine reports subjective speed: sprint, exercise pace, cruising, etc.
For my own reference about relative boat speed I like to test a boat at an "exercise" pace to see how fast it will tend to average over a short distance at a reasonable level of exertion. That does not mean I will keep that pace up over the course of a day.
an exercise pace may be 5.5 mph for an 18 foot Brit style kayak...but I would not say I can average that speed all day.
so I think some of it is relative and subject to the frame of reference of the paddler when they report paddling speed.
Bear in mind as well that there are variables of wind and current. Many times ppl don't realize that maybe their really fast speed is a function of the outgoing tide. I don't think they intentionally lie, but they don't account for this.
that being said though, ppl still do over exaggerate. I have a hard time pushing a boat to reach 6mph so all the folks (who are not elite atheletes or not paddling an Epic or something) who say they averaged over 6mph over the course of 2 hours or something like that....I find that to likely be an exaggeration for most ppl.
A final statement is a caveat. while I do tend to assume ppl are exaggerating when they claim high paddling speeds, the fact of the matter is that I can't say for sure that they are not being honest and accurate. Many have accused me of exaggerating about paddling on days with 30 or 35 knot wind gusts, and I don't blame them. but I can say for an absolute fact that it is true, and the ppl who paddle with me know that it is true as well. it is easy for ppl on pnet who don't know any better just to assume you are lying becuase it is somethign that they can't do.
so you never know....
Matt
Speaking of lyers
I worked with a guy last year who drove an F150 that gets 50 mpg. It also had automatic lug nugs that you don’t have to tighten when you install the wheels, they tighten themselves. He was let go for various infractions after about 9 months. But don’t feel bad for him, I heard from a friend of his that he made over 200k doing construction work last month.
Let’s face it, everyone lies at some point; “do these pants make my butt look big?”… But like another poster said earlier, at least make it something slightly feasible. Sheesh.
good post, bowler
Use distance and time
When I’m testing a new kayak I will use my GPS for short sprints for max speed measurements. However if you paddle for an hour+ you can get the average speed.
However, I usually like to run an 6km route from the Humber River (Point A) to the Toronto Islands (Point B). If I can do this in 60min in boat #1 and 45min in boat #2…well you get the point.
There’s really too many variables to say what the max speed of a perticular kayak is. But if you’re getting passed by canoes and peddleboats…we’ll that’s slow.
Paddling truth
– Last Updated: Aug-28-12 6:43 PM EST –
In my personal experience I have found that the average casual paddler, paddles in the area of 3.6 to 4.2 mph. I know this because I have spent some time volunteering with a National Park program where we would take regular daytime paddling trips with good sized groups of people.
3.6 to 4.2 mph?
the people are like tourists coming for a group paddle? That’s pretty impressive for non-moving water and average or less paddlers. I paddle a LOT of miles and average (breaks and all included) not much more than 4.5mph over a distance. When doing group trips I often budget something closer to 3.5mph and slower if the trip is oriented toward newer paddlers.
Sorry JC, should have clarified
– Last Updated: Aug-28-12 5:48 PM EST –
These are generally shorter distance paddles that cover under 6 miles.
The 4.2 is the actual paddling speed with good paddlers. 90% of the paddles are closer to 3.6 when "moving"... Hard to average in stops because sometimes the stops mid way are 15 minutes and longer.
Damn it, I should have just said I was lying! (laughing)
Maybe that was 44 Kph
44 kilometers per hour = 27.28 mph. Much more realistic for a small group doing race-training. The local training crits I did 30 years ago averaged 28-30 mph (Cat. II-III racers).
Yeah, 3.6 to 4.2 mph sounds high
for “casual” paddlers in flat water. I guess it also depends where you are, because most places I’ve paddled regularly see more people doing HALF that speed range. The very few who go 4 to 4.5 mph paddle frequently and don’t yak/blabber, not exactly “casual.”
Sadly, no…
The guy was European IIRC, and I’m translating what he said to mph from kph (he was saying 70 kph).
I remember paddling the Upper Missouri River in Montana in 1999. We were in a good section below the White Cliffs with some favorable gradient. The current was around 5 mph. Then we had a tail wind from the NW around 15-25 mph . We pulled out a bed sheet and held the two canoes near each other and made a big catamaran. We had rooster tails behind both boats. The scenery flew by. I can only guess that we were making around 10-12 mph by just steering.
The trip was 151 miles and we paddled 36 miles the last day.
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I have no accurate way to measure speed, but what I do have gives me a good idea of faster or slower speed as an average. I paddle on the lake (reservoir) near me most times. So I know the average distances between points and by looking at a clock as I leave and again when I return I can get an idea if was was faster of slower. Wind here is a given. It’s going to be a factor about 9 times in 10. Some days it favors you, some it’s against you. If we have a north wind and I am going into it for 50% of the trip and with it for 50% of the trip I future it’s unimportant because it’s helping me 1/2 the time and resisting me 1/2 the time. One cancels out the other. But it shifts here a lot too so you never know how it’s going to be if you are out more then about 4 hours.
Jyak told me something 3 years ago I have found to be completely true. He told me to look at the times and keep a record, but not to try to go fast at all. He said “try to be very efficient with your strokes and as you get better, speed comes as a consequence”. Speed being an indicator of efficiency, more then a test of power.
He’s right!
So if I average 3.5 MPH or 3.75 MPH or 4.2 MPH now, it’s more a matter of how hard I want to work, but what I am doing today is faster then what I did 3 years ago at the same level of exertion. Or to say it another way, I can go the same speed I did 3 years ago with less effort now. I don’t try for speed often because it can cause me pain in my shoulders later in the day or the next day…
How fast am, I? I can’t say, but what I do know is that in a long day (12-14 hours on Saturdays in June or July) I have gone from the mouth of the Wind River to the Boysen Dam and all the way back, not going in a straight lines but looking at various things along the way for the fun of the trip, stopping for 45 minutes for lunch and relaxation 1 time, and stopping for energy bars and water 3 times (maybe 10 minutes each time). The total distance covered is around 35-36 miles. So if I did 35 miles in an actual time (deducting lunch and breaks) of about 11.5 hours that is only 3.04 MPH. That’s no where near as fast as some times I read about online, but for a 11.5 to 12 hour period I don’t think it’s bad. And at no time as I really “digging in” and trying for speed.
Is that “fast”? I don’t know.
It’s fast enough ---- because at the end of the trip I was feeling like a shower, hot meal and bed were welcome events, but I was not in pain or overly tired. I was satisfied but if called on to do so, I could have gone quite a bit longer.
On my trips of around 10- 15 miles I typically calculate my average speed to be closer to 3.5 or 3.75 MPH. But not always. Some days I go slower before I am sightseeing more, and some days I am in much higher waves and that makes me go slower, so I can’t say if I am doing well, average or slow. I have no one to compare myself to, but my Sisters kayak coach came through here last year on his way to the Great Lakes, and we went for a short paddle. He told me not to worry. That I was already faster on average than many of the kayakers he goes out with every year. He and my Sis are trying to get me to go with them for 5 weeks on the Alaska coast, and I intend to do that but I can’t go yet. I have too much work to finish before I can justify going out that long.
The fastest I think I ever went was maybe 1-1/4 miles when I was along the cliffs when a lightning storm came over and the mountain the hits around me were going FlashBOOM with about 1/2 second between the flash and the thunder. I was VERY motivated to get off the H ELL off the water and I was making the bow rise up a little as I paddled to the shore. I know I was going a LOT faster that time then I usually go, because my bow waves was very pronounced and bow itself was climbing upward a small amount. I also remember throwing rooster tails of water at the end of the strokes. (probably not the best technique but at the time I didn’t care)
How fast was I going then? No where near fast enough!!!
I was trying really hard to hit 100 miles per hour, (I am quite sure I didn’t get there)
At times like that you wonder "Why is the water…and the air so thick? Why can’t I go faster?
Fear of getting fried will motivate you. It does me anyway.
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People can tell lies as big as they ever could. The Internet doesn’t screen for truth.
However, inadvertent lying due to not really knowing your speed is now less likely, if you use a GPS-based device on the water. Many fitness watches will track speed, as will some smartphones.
But use some common sense, too. I’ve had bizarre max speed readings from my normally-good GPS watch. One time it said 16 mph, then flipped to 26 mph, then settled on 36 mph! That’s while PADDLING! This has only happened two or three times for inexplicable reasons. Another time I failed to stop Activity Recording after my hike, got in the truck, and about 10 miles later it said I had averaged, oh, some multiple of 10 mph plus change. LOL, that one was obvious why.
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GPS can measure speed over ground pretty well.
The only people that get lost going to my house are the ones using a GPS.
Blame it on Google Maps and their ilk. Where they come up with some of the mistakes in them is a real head-scratcher. We get lots of lost people driving around back and forth. Inevitably, the bad directions were from their navigation app. The people with real maps (the kind that show more than a tiny blown-up patch with no larger context) might stop to check surroundings vs where they think they are on the map, but those people never come back repeating their clueless driving around.
The GPS itself might be working perfectly. It’s the online instructions that are not to be relied on.
A bigger problem that’s been worsening is that many people do not read maps. They can only follow turn-by-turn instructions. NO visualization, and if even one minor turn is missed, they are lost in context-less space.
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When I was younger than I am now, I did a 24 mile back and forth on Raystown lake in PA. Total time was 4 hours and 20 minutes. Had a GPs with me. At 71 years old, I don’t think I could recreate that speed. My boat was my Artisan Millennium, 18’3" by 21 1/4".