‘Specially iffin’ dem thaar Lutherans…
be Canadian wit Betamax video equipment. Waar be GaryR?
FE
and if a paddling
– Last Updated: Nov-26-08 5:45 PM EST –
Pole (which I am on occasion, though my wife calls me the poling polack) switches to a pole the equation switches to E=MCHammered as explained below.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2068114370063026580VilPMu
But seriously folks, ain't no way a paddle is pushing you up this Waaaay tooo shallow)
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2520179090063026580DvRMGO
or this (that's my 14 year old Aaron crankin' it :-))
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2190530430063026580DpHRlm
and here is where you can use both...
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2645028800094366337FzPgZs
our rapids aren’t swamplike
and would chew up a paddle real darn quick. Cripe, they chew up unprotected aluminum real quick, and aircraft grade aluminum at that. See pix. below. Dang it’s a big world out there :-).
But physics clearly shows…
…that poles can exist only in pairs. there ain’t no
mono-pole.
'cept in Asia
– Last Updated: Nov-26-08 10:35 PM EST –
Chinese have mono-pole-lee, Vietnamese mono-pole-Li. I must admit you may have a point, as the Lees and Li's I know are all married.
The race has been run
In the early 80’s Gordon Black , later of NOC, ACA, etc fame, was sitting in a Sawyer Shockwave with a bent carbon paddle early one misty morning during LL Bean’s NOCS.
Up comes the equally fabled Harry Rock, standing tall in a MRC Explorer with his usual poll.
One challenged the other to a race. from that point on, all Gordo saw was Harrys ass and elbows receding into the mist in front of him.
Gordon is pretty skilled with a paddle, and, while both boats were similar in length, the Shock has a much better speed/length ratio, That said, Harry was rotating from his ankles - putting the power of his entire body into that pole, and his cadence was higher. Bye, at least for a while!
I’d sure be wearing a helmet
poling through those boulders!
You’re just being silly now.
every now and then
we polers need to let loose from our serious,analytical, equation filled and textbook perfect, obsession with standing in canoes and smashing into rocks and fellow polers. Happy Thanksgiving all you nuts!!
Pole vs paddle race
I checked your photos. The real skill in the rock garden is picking a line. I don,t see the advantage to a pole. A race between a paddler and a poler would be fun. God, I love a race.
did you notice
– Last Updated: Nov-28-08 7:28 PM EST –
10 polers, no paddlers going upstream? I love making my way up rapids via paddle. I made my way up and down (up to the big dry rock in the background)
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2007582580094366337CtIoSq
3 times today,front and sidesurfing in the eddies, then ferrying to the next eddy up, as a small part of a 2 rapid day(Satans Kingdom and Crystal rapids section of the Farmington River here in Ct.). However, the other pictures, taken at NewBoston, should make it obvious paddling up those rapids would be pretty much impossible. No further discussion required. This ain't no swamp, there ain't no water. You want to further establish your reputation, keep typing!!Or show some pictures of you doing what you claim.
Indication of water speed here. This is a stretch below Satans, around the same speed as where the NB poling area is.
http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3012421670094366337OlDXso
Don’t see the advantage, vert?
I should think it would be obvious. Maybe you should give it a try.
It’s funny that I don’t see anyone paddling upstream for more than a short distance any place I pole. No one seems to want to follow me with their paddle, and I’m a rank beginner. Put me in less than a foot of water and a paddler would be hard-pressed to keep pace with even me.
pole vs paddle
Some where the point of my question has been lost in our competitiveness. I use a 9ft double blade paddle to pole with. It works well upstream as long as the paddle blade is turned so as to not catch the current. My question is why would a pole be a better choice than this paddle since it poles well and can be used for paddling when the water deepens?
paddle up shot
Here’s a link for shot using a paddle to pole. http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/14817/2982627140104453143S200x200Q85.jpg
Advantage of Pole Vs Paddle
A pole with a metal shoe can often hold onto small variations in the river bottom where-as a sideways paddle would need a relatively flat and even river bed … which is extremely rare in the NE river ways.
I would also argue that a 12" pole will give you a much longer and powerful push than a likely much shorter double blade paddle.
I am a big fan of the Lendall 3 part Fiberglass pole which will has a livelier feel and more flexability than an aluminum paddle shaft.
I’m a huge fan of experiential poling and its awesome that you found a non traditional method that works for you … but I can’t imagine a double kayak paddle being more affective than a well made 12’ Pole.
Okay - I’ll bite
…though I’m not the most qualified to answer, by any means.
I’ve stood and pushed with a paddle some in the shallows. If there is any confused current at all, it will tend to push the blade around on the way to the bottom more than a bare pole - even if knifed forward. Not good for control except in the shallowest of water. Either way, the blade itself gets chewed up pretty fast.
A 9’ reach (and subtract the length of blade, since it can’t be used well as a grip) is a disadvantage in situations where it is most useful to pole off the bank or or a distant rock or up through deep water. Deeper water is an issue, due to the advantage of leverage against rock vs leverage against water.
In a technical run, if poling with a paddle, one would have to add attention to blade angle to the mix - where a bare pole has no such issue.
If using a double paddle for poling, doing crossover strokes for an aggressive uphill climb or a sprint across flat water would be slowed by the upper blade wiffing through the air - not to mention the blade angle in the water issue once again.
Hey - maybe I’m wrong about some of this, vert. You already have the balance down. Why not get yerself a pole (much cheaper than a good paddle) and give it an honest try. Then you can tell us.
pole
Ok, I’m on board. My pole came from Lowes. I wasn’t aware that you could actually buy a made for canoeing pole. Everyone I knows use closet poles. Maybe it is time I came out of the closet (pun). Where can you get poles? I’m 5"10", what is a good length, 12ft?
here’s Freds plans
– Last Updated: Nov-29-08 4:09 PM EST –
for the "home de-pole." Decent starter pole. I've made mine even easier by just gooping copper endcaps on the end. Alternatives are aluminum (Freds got a great plan for an inexpensive 2 piece pole, using 2 6' pieces of 1.125" o.d. tube from texastowers)
Ed Hayden makes poles, one and 2 piece aluminum. If you're interested, I could see if he'd ship one or 2 to you. He charges $85/ea. last I knew. Shipping for 12' is prohibitive.
Also Tophers Lendal pole is nice.
I have a "corporate acct." ;-) with a local steel supplier, and get my stock from them. Since Ed buys in quantity, his finished pole is a good price.
http://www.brockeng.com/AmusingRaven/pole.htm
http://ravensjester.smugmug.com/gallery/517955#21319710_t7NQP
'bout time you started making sense!!!;-)
Poles
I corresponded with Don Merchant of Pole and Paddle Canoe. www.poleandpaddle.com/poles.html. I would have purchased one except that I live on the California coast and the shipping was very expensive due to the length. I did purchase an adjustable aluminum pole from Spring Creek Outfitters. www.canoegear.com/catalog/home.php?cat=69. Once I get more practice and determine how much I can use it, I may purchase a wooden pole from Don Merchant.
Wow, I’ve been missing a lot of fun!!
Nice pic of the upstream paddling, Vert. But in my whitewater days we called that “escalater eddy service”…easy upstream.
You are right that a paddle held with the blade turned away from the current could be used as a pole, but 1) what a quick way to break or wreck a blade! and 2) in shallow rocky whitewater, how do you know what direction the current is coming from? Ask any squirtboater about subsurface currents in whitewater. This is not an issue with a pole. And 3) what topher said. A pole gets its grip on rocks by fitting into crevices, small spaces, or simply grabbing onto the rough surface of a rock. A paddle blade held so the current goes by would slip over good plants. A paddle blade face to the current could easily be stuck by the current against a rock face. I see only frustration.
And in the real shallow stuff, nothing gives you control better than a pole. A paddle blade becomes a hindrance. This is doubly true going DOWNstream. Try stopping on a dime in the middle of a rapid with a paddle.
My racing days are over, but if you’re in the area, vertpaddler, I’d gladly put your paddle to the test. And lend you a pole to compare.
-rs