Their conclusions may be true
Oops, should be under posting below>
But like so many medical studies there is no random assignment of persons to conditions. There is no clear interpretation of those results since it is quite likely the two groups differed in other ways that are related to the measurements taken.
some, but not regularly
3 Advil and 2 Tylenol sounds excessive to me. My stomach can be sensitive to NSAIDs so at most I take one ibuprofen with one Tylenol. Sometimes if I have bad form and tweak my shoulder (rare now thankfully) and sometimes on very long, but slow paddles my lower back gets sore. I find that my lower back isn’t sore if I make full use of my legs while paddling. I suspect some folks need to either stretch more, work on form or just get on the water more often.
I think Warden is overdosing on his own
evidence, but it is clear that taking prescription level doses or more, routinely, for workouts, is a bad idea. Whether there is a danger for most people taking lower doses of NSAIDs is unclear. SOME people probably should not take NSAIDs routinely, but we don’t yet know how to identify all of those people, and they don’t seem to be dying like flies.
Interesting… but
did anyone read the Wired magazine article about placebo response and how it is affecting the pharmaceutical corps? Kind of a side tangent to this discussion, maybe, maybe not.
I take an Aleve every morning
and two for severe joint pain. Aspirin for headaches and fever.
brainwashed by Big Pharma?? (rant here)
I’m appalled at that level of pill popping. Yeah, it’s hard on your body and probably counter-productive as well. Can’t quote chapter and verse at the moment but I have heard of studies that indicate that chronic use of NSAIDS and other “anti-inflammatory” drugs actually leads to a sort of systematic tolerance so they really no longer work and the side-effects outweigh any benefits.
First off, what is wrong with feeling a little achey after heavy exertion? If you are really feeling intolerable pain, perhaps you ought to seek out the source and get it treated, and/or condition yourself better for the activities that trigger it. Yoga stretches or even just walking it out can burn off the lactic acid after a hard paddle or portage and prevent a good bit of the rebound discomfort of unfamiliar exertions.
And speaking of pills: how many of you are taking statins for cholesterol or just because your Doc puts everybody on them “because it can’t hurt.”? Well, it DOES hurt – Big Pharma doesn’t want you to know this but statin use can and does contribute to the damage and deterioration of your muscles more frequently than they will publicize. Just last year at 58 I began feeling severe physical aches and weakness after even moderately heavy exercise (like the first all-day paddling trip of the season or a few hours of heavy yard work.) At first I figured it was just age – sad but inevitable. Then I started having actual weakness and spasms in arm and leg muscles the day after exertion and became alarmed. I’d taken a small daily dose (10mg) of Lipitor for about 15 years for borderline (low 200’s) cholesterol and asked my doc if I could quit for a while and see what happened. He agreed and I stopped taking it. Within a week the muscle aches and weakness disappeared completely and now 8 months later I rebound from heavy exercise like I was 25 again and haven’t taken an NSAID or any other “pain reliever” in over a year. I seem to be able to match or even out-pace more “fit” people who are younger than me now.
Talk to your doctor – typically stopping statins briefly is not a problem (in fact, I used to regularly stop them for a week before every time I donated blood.) See if that helps.
I’m no super-jock and admit I am about 15% above my best weight, but I keep in reasonable shape (walking daily, moderate gym workout on treadmill and weight machines 1 or 2 times a week, plus a longish trail hike, bike or flatwater paddle several times a month). I’ve also, through trial and error, found a combo of cheap vitamin supplements that seems to keep me flexible and energetic: one Centrum multi, 1200IU of Omega 3/6/9 plus another 1100 of Omega 3, 500IU of Vitamin E and a gram of C with bioflavinoids. Other than eschewing coffee and soft drinks, I’m basically an omnivore (with a sweet tooth) though I probably eat half as much meat and twice as much fruits and veggies as the average American, just out of taste preference.
Also – and this is purely anecdotal – I have never drunk coffee or cola yet have noticed among the dozens of folks who have been my recreational buddies over some 40 years, that the heavier the caffeine drinker, the more they seemed to be troubled by joint and muscular pain. I couldn’t offer any explanation for this observation (though I have noticed that many coffee drinkers tend to substitute the jolt of caffeine for food, especially at breakfast.)
Pardon the rant (and would expect it to trigger some backlash) – just offering my own experiences and some no-cost suggestions that might preserve or enhance somebody else’s health and paddling enjoyment.
yes - Ibprophin due to shoulder and
sometimes tylenol for back. Age sucks.
Greetings, oh…
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I appreciate your rant
Something I’d add to your post is the effectiveness of glucosamine and chondroitin, something that someone else mentioned above. And a big mention to stretching at the beginning of the day, before, and after exercise. MY personal opinion is that some people might be too impatient to stretch and would rather rely on painkillers to mask the resultant pain.
Ice is nice
Lots of issues with my back, usually pretty uncomfortable after paddling all day. I get off my feet and put an ice pack on my lower back for 15 or 20 minutes and usually that is enough. Once in a while I still need ibuprofen.
Alternating paddling with bike riding, and doing strengthening and cardio workouts at the Y helps.
Self-delusion
Nah - no way it's arthritis, just a leetle kinky this morning...
Seriously, same as for playing the violin. A couple of tylenol before taking off if it's going to be a long paddle. When on vacation, some wine after.
Ostearthritis.
I don’t know about lactic acid, but here are my thoughts on pills and osteoarthritis.
Many older people with osteoarthritis feel more than “a little achey” most of the time, and significant pain with kayaking.
Treatment of shoulder problems is very complex. Many people with shoulder pain spend years seeking accurate diagnosis and treatment. It’s not like they’re popping pills because they’re too lazy to go to the doctor.
There comes a point when physical therapy can’t help (it can’t restore a joint with no cartilege) and conditioning at the gym is no longer effective or possible because the joint can’t support any significant weight. 8-lb bicep curls won’t get you very far.
Often the bottom line offered by doctors at that point is “Take ibuprofen until you can’t stand it; then upgrade to something stronger; then get the joint replaced.” It can take years before surgery is feasible. We have to live in the meantime and we don’t want to give up the activities we’re passionate about.
I share your aversion to drugs and try to avoid them whenever possible. But I wouldn’t be able to kayak, backpack, bike, ski, etc. without ibuprofen. I notice much less pain on the days when I take it. If I take it at night I feel much better than usual in the morning. Same for taking it before paddling. But I’m very concerned about the side effects and I take it as seldom as possible, tempting as it it to take it every day twice a day.
I agree with you that nutrition and exercise are important factors in how we feel after age 50, and my understanding is that sugar contributes to the inflammation in arthritis, so I avoid it.
I have done ABAB trials on most of my
meds, including naproxen, and I’m now doing a trial of reducing Lipitor to 10 mg. I don’t have muscle aches that I can blame on Lipitor, but while I always had “good hands” while rowing and paddling, since starting Lipitor I’ve had skin thickening and cracking on my hands.
My ABAB trial on naproxen (Aleve) showed that I did experience more joint pain when not taking Aleve. As my daily dose is rather low, I’m not worried about problems. But people who routinely use prescription-level rather than OTC level doses of NSAIDs should be watchful, and talk regularly with their physicians. I think a trial off such medications, when one is not exercising as hard, is very much warranted.
+1 ice
what I love about ice is that it is a very targeted anti-inflammatory with basically no side effects. I often ice after a workout when only a hint of a problem just for insurance. Ice after, warmth before a workout. Drugs like ibuprofen are good when ice isn’t practical and you just need to get past some pain until you get home.
none
I don’t get sore from paddling, although I do get tired. My Med Kit I carry with me does contain Advil and aspirin though, in case of injury. I also carry OTC sleep aids for night - sometimes I am too amped fall to sleep and that helps.
don’t mix booze and tylenol
Wine (or any booze) is not a good mix with tylenol.
You won’t get any backlash from me.
It is a shame how the modern generation gets duped into taking pain killers at the drop of a hat or the slighest ache.
My wife and I both comment many times after a long hard training paddle how that gentle soreness feels more good than bad, and then a few hours later we are ready to go again.
Cheers,
JackL
Just to repeat, Advil and aspirin are in
some ways incompatible. And their positive effects are duplicative in that both have the same pain relieving, inflammation reducing, fever reducing, and anti platelet clumping effects. It’s just that when used together, they muck each other up.
You can use Tylenol and an NSAID together, if Tylenol does any good for you.
People who take aspirin for anti-platelet clumping and who want to take an occasional non aspirin NSAID for increased relief are better advised to take Aleve (naproxen) which does not have nearly the amount of negative interaction with aspirin as Advil.
pain is just another feeling.
Deal with it. Bunch of freakin' junkies on this board. I take my msm, gluco, condroitin mix. No pain relievers. Your body's trying to tell you something, listen to it.
I'd rather hurt than take that crap. Aleve is garbage that degrades your nerves, that's why you feel "better." Pain is better than side effects, my opinion, with lots of experience.
g2d, I appreciate that info, as I have
been on an 81 mg aspirin dose for heart and colon health for a few years…I also take vitamin I frequently for lumbar “issues”…had another MRI this week. My Dr. has never mentioned that the two are incompatible. I will quiz him next time I talk with him.
Thanks,
Leigh